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From: Walter
To: EagleCunny
Date: Sat Dec 1 00:00:22 2001

Message:
However, youve responded, and asked others to speak to you 
                respectfully and intelligently and you would do 
so in kind.  it 
                doesnt really fucking matter in the long run I 
guess.  I guess I 
                 was just gullable enough at times to think that 
you would post 
                  at least one or two sentences of real thoughts 
... vs. your 
                                    ficticious 
personalities.______

Yes,you were.Your whole country is.Watch what happens to the 
soldiers in Afganistan when the Northern Allaince turns on 
them.If you think you know anger now,watch what I post then!

From: om/cf
To: Walter
Subject: exactly
Date: Sat Dec 1 00:05:40 2001

Message:
Exactly the point I wished to extract from you. Thanks.

From: theE.S.D.
To: EagleEye
Subject: Remember Bush's Statement in your endeavors.
Date: Sat Dec 1 00:00:58 2001

Message:
paraphrased:"We'll fight this war on our terms;NOT theirs."

From: Walter
To: om/cf
Date: Sat Dec 1 00:11:28 2001

Message:
Your missin Billy Bob as president and Im celebrating that
                  scumbags departure.
Nope.Sorry.I never voted for Clinton.But most Americans did;shows 
how little self-respect they have for themselves.Not once,but 
twice!LOL!!

From: Walter
To: om/cf
Date: Sat Dec 1 00:22:30 2001

Message:
ore the pacifist bitch would have us telling all terrorists
                 how wrong we are for pissing them off and how 
we'll kiss their
                    ass from here on out and feel free to attack 
us anytime 
                 convienent for you. We will leave our airports, 
nuclear plants
                  and in country military bases on the lowest 
state of alert so
                                   you can attack us at will.

NOW YOU'RE TALKIN!!!!If people would've been posting stuff like 
this when I came to fuckin board,you wouldn't know who in the 
fuck"Walter"was.

From: om/cf
To: Walter
Subject: now your talkin
Date: Sat Dec 1 00:28:08 2001

Message:
Now stay with me, just a 56k dialup here not the wireless at 
at work, you would be willing to, at least temporarily give up
a little freedom for the safety of America as a whole?

From: allatti2d
To: Noah, N.C. Gal, Everyman, Ashraf, Spy, Missin
Subject: Note from U.K. Citizen
Date: Sat Dec 1 00:01:56 2001

Message:
I've taken it under advisement that our dear U.K. Citizen is 
leaving his options open with regards to this board.  He doesn't 
want to break his word, but my opinion is that it would not so 
much be breaking his word than making a "new word," so to 
speak!  I've always enjoyed his posts, as I'm sure many of you 
have as well.  I forwarded to him the messages some of you left 
to him after his last post, which he apparently enjoyed and 
appreciated.

I am glad that he is continuing to email me.  I'm not online 
enough to be a go-between if any of you want to send messages, 
but I'm happy to pass on anything when I can.  That said, he 
asked me to say a few things to you on his behalf (I'm quoting, 
and hope he doesn't mind that I've changed some pronouns and 
phrasing a little so it will make more sense):

1. I forgot to mention Noah in by drawn out goodbye list!, 
please tell him from me, "Noah, though you maybe one of the 
youngest on here, nevertheless you're one of the most sensible!, 
You sir..rock!! Take care." 

2. North Carolina Gal, U.K. Citizen asks you not to be afraid to 
contribute more... he liked to hear your thoughts and 
observations.  I (allatti2d) must say I agree.

He also wishes you to know that it is good to have Everyman 
posting at this board, and he encourages you to continue.

3. "I forgot poor Ashraf!!..It wasn't intentional. ... 
U.K.Citizen sends his regards, I omitted him quite 
unintentionally, and that I for one, realize he's obviously not 
a Terrorist, and to suggest he change his handle (jokingly of 
course), to -- Mr Persistence and Perseverance." 


4. Spy, U.K. Citizen asked me (allatti2d) to keep an eye out for 
you since he hadn't seen you post for a little while when he was 
here before.  He was concerned about you.  I will tell him 
you're still here!

* * * * * * * *

Missin, I believe that there was a misunderstanding of some kind 
that happened.  I'll try to find out, if I can, and if it turns 
out to be something consequential, I'll let you know.  You and I 
both know what can happen when there are no facial expressions, 
voice intonations, or body language that go along with posts!  I 
hope it's nothing more than that.  I couldn't figure it out on 
my own, so I think it must have been a misunderstanding.  You 
remember our discussion about language differences, like 
getting "pissed" and "shagged"??  I wonder if it was something 
like that!! :)

Anyway, I have much to say regarding current events, but first I 
must finish attending to other emails and such.  I'm glad U.K. 
Citizen is still here in spirit (for now, anyway, until I really 
start applying my womanly pressure on him to the point where he 
will no longer be able to refuse!!).

From: Father Guido
To: John
Subject: S.S.L.....<><.....
Date: Sat Dec 1 00:35:53 2001

Message:
Hey dude, Sorry So Late in getting back to you but you know some 
of us do really have jobs and can't sit around allday in front 
of our computers hacking away wasting precious time...Anyway I 
just wanted to set the record straight for you...NO I'M NOT THE 
REAL FATHER GUIDO!!!!....but I do impersonate him from time to 
time on a semi professional level...  )just so you know) and I 
think you are right ....A "real" priest wouldn't necessarly say 
those things... As for your posting right behind the one reply 
you made to me a week or so ago, sounded as though you thought 
not everyone should be allowed access to these sites and 
boards....Sorry if I took it personnal so close to the message 
you left for me and all.... anyway, I need my rest to go out and 
practice what I preach and help those less fortunate than myself 
all day on Saturday...God Bless You And Yours...<><...<><...F.G.+

From: Walter
To: om/cf
Date: Sat Dec 1 01:01:26 2001

Message:
A good point.But the problem is that"temporarily"is a word that 
hasn't come up.I can certainly understand"wartime measures",but 
nobody is saying that so far,because for one thing,this war is 
going to go on for a long time.There are people who believe that 
this will be over soon,and I can't figure out where in the world 
they got that information.Even Bush stated that this would take 
several years.America will soon tire of this war when taxes go 
up,with no hope of coming down.When we all internalize the fact 
that this is going to affect us for the next 10-20 years,it's not 
 going to be the same gung-ho project that it is right now.

From: Spy
To: allatti2d ( and U.K. Citizen if he reads this )
Date: Sat Dec 1 00:52:07 2001

Message:
I feel I caused you (U.K. Citizen ) "discomfort" on some kind 
of level or another---I didn't mean to do that sir.
I do hope you come back to this board to post---[as theESD
said]--"remember when they were gonna leave"--you were 
one of the people ( it seemed to me ) who asked them back.

Just maybe--your contribution here is worth more than your 
word. A thought at least.
In military terms----"don't leave your "post"----

From: Noah
To: Walter
Subject: So it's true...
Date: Sat Dec 1 00:34:57 2001

Message:
NOW YOU'RE TALKIN!!!!If people would've been posting 
stuff like 
this when I came to fuckin board,you wouldn't know who in 
the 
fuck"Walter"was.
-----
So you assume we know who walter is? What IS your 
position? Laughing out loud? I guess you have to start 
somewhere. You should put your laughter on CD and sell it 
to sitcom producers for their canned comedy. You know, 
more money if you're really that hard up for it.

You are certainly an enigma, but you keep the page filling up 
with responses, so you are useful in that respect. I still really 
want to find out if you have a point other than annoying 
people. 

Quagmire...that's a funny word. I'm in a quagmire of 
incoherent letters and spaces. Its all really a blur It's hard to 
type on the keyboard when your head is ralling off. I'm not 
the best touch-typist. Maybe I should thinkof a point...I don't 
know if I have one other than being thankful that I live in a 
country where we can be free. I hope things don't change 
too much towards the case of paranoia, but I hope that there 
are many fewer terrorists at the end of this war. The natural 
order takes over as humans carry out their population 
control. Who was it? Tom Malthus - it's better for society if 
there are fewer people? I guess everyone is doing their part. 
It's sad that people choose to be so hateful towards 
humankind. I think people are pretty valuable. Well, we all 
have the potential to be valuable...or the choice to be 
valuable. Now that Christmas is coming around we have the 
disgusting consumerism raging on in full force. It's sad that 
I depend so much upon it...that all of us do. It's the force that 
leads to progress and also decay. It doesn't seem to matter 
much to very many people the reason to celebrate. What is 
better news? You're getting a new bike, or you're getting 
eternal salvation? This is why I do not like going anywhere 
before Christmas - people shopping and lusting for STUFF. 
How many others have too much stuff? I do. I have way 
more than I need and I want way more than I should want! 
This is not the way to live. I would rather see everyone have 
more than me, just to know there would be less for them to 
want. Alas, I know this is not rational because having more 
leads to wanting more. How do we wean ourselves from 
this way of life? I don't know, and most Americans think I 
should care. We depend on our economy - we know no 
other way to live. So I spew all this thought with no real 
solution, since I need a job to pay my rent so I can keep an 
apartment that holds my stuff, which I buy with the money I 
get from my job. Even giving money away feels useless 
sometimes - people still starve, not everyone gives and it's 
hard to know if people are truly being satisfied with the 
money. I think I am merely a transient, trapped inside a 
career man's life.

Shoot! so I still don't really have a point. I just talk and talk 
and still say nothing. Sorry. I want everyone to be able to live 
in peace, but I have no faith in the human race as a whole. 
People are selfish and scared and cause harm to other 
people. My main hope is that this war will benefit the many 
at the peril of the few. Sometimes it has to be that way. I 
would gladly give my life to save many more lives, but I want 
the lives saved to be lives lived. 

Ache, then war, then reconstruction, then peace. We can 
always hope for the best while expecting the worst. God 
bless.

From: EagleEye
To: ESD
Subject: the terms
Date: Sat Dec 1 00:16:03 2001

Message:
"paraphrased:"We'll fight this war on our terms;NOT theirs."

He should have added ... "Nor on the terms of any panzy ass 
Coalition Member either"

Good good point ESD.

From: Walter
To: om/cf
Date: Sat Dec 1 01:26:47 2001

Message:
http://www.terrorismfiles.org/

Take a look at this shit!One of the worst things is that those 
people are doing the things they do with very little financial 
backing when compared with what we have spent so far.How many 
billions of dollars will we spend until we realize that this 
might have been the intention all along.The Taliban don't give 
a flying fuck about Afganistan,they let the whole country get 
bombed for this shit.The worst mistake I think that people are 
making is that they believe bin Laden is a stupid man.He's 
been involved in this type of activity since the late 
1970's.Clinton sat on his ass and let this shit continue for 
years.If he would have done something then,9-11-2001 would 
have been just another day.Bin Laden tried to bring the WTC 
down before,and failed.Didn't they think he'd try it again to 
save face?I'm not saying we shouldn't go after them,I'm saying 
don't bankrupt yourself in the process.
 The Taliban didn't believe that we would come after them.Osama 
bin Laden knew it all along.I'm sure he knows that after 
Afganistan,we'll have to go to Somalia,Sudan,Iraq,Yeman,and who 
knows where else after that,and that this is going to cost a lot 
of money.

From: Noah
To: UK Citizen
Subject: since you're still reading :)
Date: Sat Dec 1 01:34:56 2001

Message:
Hey there, since you're still reading, I just wanted to thank 
you for your kind words to a "youngster". I don't know what 
caused you to leave, but surely most of the people in here 
appreciate everything you have to say. People like you are 
why America loves the British! I should probably get to 
sleep...I'm going to have to change my name back to 
exhausted. whew!

Walter, that last post (for whichever walter it is) had some 
genuine content! I just wanted to voice my appreciation for 
some honest thought. I don't know how long the war will go 
on and to what extent it will affect life at home, but I do think 
that most of this reaction is temporary...such as the "office of 
homeland security". Might it be just another beurocratic 
assemblage of people who have no idea what to do either? 
We'll see. I think, as far as airline security, the best they 
could have done was strengthen the cockpit doors. Beyond 
that, it's easy to take down an airplane. There are just far too 
many ways to do it if one sits down and thinks about it for a 
while. We cannot live our lives in fear. Most of what is being 
done won't really do anything to increase our security. 
However, I think wiretaps and the gaining of more 
intelligence will not only help fight terrorists, but also 
drug-smugglers and organized crime. This, in my opinion, 
is a good thing! Oh well, so taxes go up - I see so much 
taken out of my paycheck now, that I don't much care what 
else they take. If we have to pay a little to fight for our 
freedom, so be it. You do have a good point about nobody 
knowing how long is "long". I think its just so people don't go 
on thinking this is going to be another gulf war time scale. At 
this point, I think most of what needs to be done in other 
terrorist supporting countries does not involve bombing at 
all, but covert intelligence acquisition on a larger scale. I do 
think it would behoove much of the world if we could 
somehow depose Saddam Hussein. That might have to 
involve an army in the long run, but it's really not that bad as 
far as spending goes. Does it really hurt to have a good 
defence budget? I just don't know what you're so afraid of. 
I guess I just plan to live my life now and if I get blown up 
tomorrow, I will hope it is just me and not many more 
Americans, but I will have no regrets...I can only die once! :-). 

Thanks for saying something. I still don't know how much of 
what comes out of your name is you, or how many of you 
there are, but the last post was worth reading for once.

From: EagleEye
To: Walter
Subject: Who the fuck is walter
Date: Sat Dec 1 01:39:16 2001

Message:
Why not try to make us forget now?

.....talk about mental masterbation ...... why have a ficticious 
dialog about ficticious beleifs/concerns/ideas?  Its usually 
more effective to dialog with someone .... if you want to do 
so "intelligently" as you have eluded, from a "position" [no not 
doggie you sick fuck].  Do you have one?  Or are you just out 
for some sniper practice. but for the record ..... UK Vomit 
brought up full well the "ilegitimate" presidency issue[s].

Interesting tho' ................

"America will soon tire of this war when taxes go 
up,with no hope of coming down"

What republican in their right mind was dreaming of them ever 
coming "down"?  That fad croaked with Reagans departure.  All 
one can hope for now is slowing growth of said evil - or 
abolishment of the IRS and a flat tax?

From: Walter
To: Noah
Date: Sat Dec 1 01:58:00 2001

Message:
So you assume we know who walter is? What IS your 
                     position? Laughing out loud? I guess you 
have to start 
                   somewhere. You should put your laughter on CD 
and sell it 
                     to sitcom producers for their canned comedy. 
You know, 
                        more money if you're really that hard up 
for it.


What I meant by that is that there would not have ever been posts 
by"Walter"on the board.As far as money goes,most of us can use 
more of that,and we are in a capitalist country,after all.Are you 
also writing to the people selling flags,pins,and posters, 
telling them what heartless bastards they are?

From: Noah
To: All
Subject: Ho Ho ho
Date: Sat Dec 1 01:59:31 2001

Message:
...And to all a good night.

I don't know, but a billion dollars buys a pretty interesting 
show if nothing else...

From: Noah
To: Walter
Subject: capitalism
Date: Sat Dec 1 02:06:40 2001

Message:
I'm addicted. I've no recourse. But I certainly do not worship 
money like they tell me to do. Seeing all the infomercials 
about special stick 'em to your car, fake tattoo, whatever 
flags, has made me rather annoyed. People profiting from 
suffering. Isn't that always the way it goes... I'm just not that 
concerned about taxes. There are many other countries that 
pay way more taxes, I mean wayyy more taxes than we do. I 
did not mean to call you a heartless bastard for trying to sell 
your memoir CD or anything - just for a lot of the things 
you've said. It's too late to sleep now. dang! I'm digging my 
own grave! Good night.

From: Walter
To: Eagle Eye
Date: Sat Dec 1 02:46:38 2001

Message:
Why have a ficticious 
                  dialog about ficticious beleifs/concerns/ideas? 
 

 OK,I get your point.But then,why are you responding?
A flat tax? --Your best idea yet,other tham telling me to fuck 
off!LOL!!!
 Making criminals and deadbeats pay taxes would come a long way 
towards bringing the national debt down.

From: Ashraf
To: Allatti2d & Beagle-Eye...
Subject: ...
Date: Sat Dec 1 02:35:45 2001

Message:
Allatti2d:
Just wanna say thanx for your support, and broad-mindedness, for 
being there, in  my absence, and for hanging in there to get UK 
Citizen back.. Tell him, he's fine, and I answered his question 
regarding Walter, but I havent received his reponse thereto. 
Tell hi that Walter didnt comment either, which goes to prove 
that my opinion about him is correct, or so I believe..

Beagle-Eye:
You'd previously stated to John, that I've got you on my ignore 
list.. Correction. I've got you on the "Cowards" list.. unless 
you wanna gimmi ur number.. LOL!!!
Ps: About your comments on the other board.. Like I said, just 
gimmi ur number..LOLOLOL!!!!

COWARD!! ;)

Peace..

From: Walter
To: Ashraf
Date: Sat Dec 1 03:24:10 2001

Message:
U.K. Citizen/ Walter:
                Take it easy dude..I haven't switched on my pc 
ever since I made 
                  my last post, 2 days back. And about your 
question regarding 
                 Walter.. I have a very different opinion that 
many of you you 
                  would possibly disagree to.. I believe that had 
the US Govt 
                asked for volunteers to go over to Afghanistan, 
Walter would out-
                   run many people on this board, to get to the 
front lines.. 
                           Walter, if I am wrong, please correct 
me..

I understand the statement of course,but I could not comment 
without understanding the context of previous statements,which 
were made in a chat room,e-mails,or another board.

From: Noah
To: All
Subject: bankrupt
Date: Sat Dec 1 10:22:14 2001

Message:
Hi, my cable ISP went bankrupt, so I'll probably not come on very 
often anymore. Just wanted to say I'll miss the constant 
conversation and solidarity! God bless you guy

From: Noah
To: Allatti2d, UK Citizen, John, Ashraf, Missin', Snake-eyes, EagleEye, Walter, Spy, om/cf, nc gal, and others
Subject: It has been fun
Date: Sat Dec 1 10:28:04 2001

Message:
oops, God bless you guyS. Okay well I don't know what else to say 
except I have enjoyed good conversation with most of you and have 
enjoyed your conversations with one another. I'll stop in and 
read when I get a chance, but since it takes a long time to load, 
I won't really be able to chat like before. Hopefully, my 
internet gets reconnected and I can come back often. Peace! enjoy 
your we

From: om/cf
To: Walter
Subject: bin lucky
Date: Sat Dec 1 09:47:53 2001

Message:
You bet bin lipshit loves America spending money on war, he
doesnt have the resources to compare so he uses what he's got,
a whole religion full of wackos who will do anything without
thought as long as its in the name of Allah.
 Bush said this war is not about religion (of course he has to 
say that) but I dont, and like to see a study on crazy terrorist
acts commited in the name of each religion, and I bet on a 
landslide victory for Islam. Hands fucking down number 1 with
a bullit! But thats like saying in America, African Americans
commit 80 percent of the crimes. Your free to say it, but 
shouldnt, so as not to offend the 20 precent.

 Bin Lucky is running out of places to go, we've all seen the
most likely countries, all of which are somewhat more advanced
than Afghanistan. Now those countries have to ask themselves,
do we want to risk all for this one asshole. Do we want to face
Bin Luckys rath or Americas rath. Seems like a easy question.
 And how about poor Bin Lucifer, all the teeshirts, bumper
stickers, and other stuff with his towel capped, sand blasted,
gigantic lipped face on it, 20 percent going to Americas relief
efforts and not to his terrorist efforts. If he was so fucking
shrewd and smart he should of had some laywers in America
covering his ass on that ahead of time.
 Personally I hope Iraq takes his sorry ass in, and we rain hell
down on Saddam & sons. Those good citizens of Arock were given
the oportunity to take control of their goverment during and
after the Gulf War and chose not to do it. There are alot of
terrorist connections with Arock. Why would some rinky dink
college boy get meetings with high level Arocky officials. Im
sure much information is being held back for right now. Arock
made its bed, now they can die in it. I hope we make Isreal
green with envy, on the amount of death and destruction we
bring to Arock, if it comes to that. First bomb Sodamns' sons
precious Zoo so the Sodamns' family is homeless so they have to
eat their beutiful Falcons or just blow them motherfuckers up
too.
 A difference betwee Arock and America:
 Sodamns' son kills a man dating his exwife after being divorced
for 2 years and gets a slap on the back and hearty handshake
from daddy dumbest.
 Bushs' daughter gets nabbed trying to buy booze while underage
and gets dragged into court and Bush says, did the crime, do
the time. Well actually probation.
 Character, some got it some dont.

From: ali massey
To: the northern alliance
Subject: killing
Date: Sat Dec 1 10:35:20 2001

Message:
to yhe northern alliance,my question to you,are you any 
different then the taliban? you are doing the same as the 
taliban did.you have no respect for ISLAM,no respect for HUMAN 
LIFE,no respect for the DEAD,and you call your killings in the 
name of ALLAH and ISLAM,thats in plain english BULLSHIT ,it for 
money only.you should have learnt from the mistakes that the 
taliban made in dealing with its people,now you are doing the 
same.i am a good muslim,i know what is right and what is 
wrong,do you?no i dont think so ,i can forsee the future of the 
northern alliance will be as bad as the taliban,no way that 
afghanistan will be a peacefull muslim nation,muslin tribe 
killing muslim tribe,shame on you, i declaire that that the 
afgan people are unislamic and unhuman not to be trusted,and 
never will become a nation of good standing,and no nation should 
subport or have any trust in you,i seen the taliban rise and 
fall now i see the northern alliance rise and will see it fall 
the same way as the taliban fell,YOUR NEXT,  ali massey 

From: EagleEye
To: Walter
Subject: Taxes ....?
Date: Sat Dec 1 11:57:36 2001

Message:
"Making criminals and deadbeats pay taxes would come a long way 
towards bringing the national debt down."

Starting with democartic senator Ted "where'd I put that mask 
and snorkel" Kennedy and his inbred family of theives.

From: EagleEye
To: Arserhaf
Subject: U know where to find me.....
Date: Sat Dec 1 12:13:14 2001

Message:
Ohhhhh Nooooooo!  NOT AssRashf's Cowards list!!!!  Please 
anything but that!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!

Told you once before ... U wanna teach me a lesson big boy ..... 
u know where to bring it.

What if America is my religion?  You've been slandering my 
prophet George W. Bush .....  What if Capitalism is my God?  
Your bro's have blown the fuck out of my Mosque .....

As far as I can tell punk bitch - your Islam shit is no 
more "righteous" or valuable than the above.

I still say the best way to deal with your asses is to point a 
couple ICBM's at Mecca and the other dung heap you prize, and 
the next terror attack - those fucking things are history.

Bizmallah asshole

From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: HeadLineNews
Date: Sat Dec 1 12:34:29 2001

Message:
12/01/2001 : "Tory leader backs Bush over attack on 
Saddam" 

IAIN DUNCAN SMITH urged President Bush to make public 
America's evidence of Iraqi involvement in terrorism as a 
precursor to taking further political and even military action 
against Saddam Hussein.
The Conservative leader yesterday said it was not 
necessary to link Iraq to al-Qa'eda to justify moving against 
Saddam as he concluded a visit that gave him extraordinary 
access to Mr Bush and his most trusted advisers. During a 
45-minute conversation with the President, Mr Duncan 
Smith offered his support for firm action against the Iraqis. 
Asked if he thought America had a "batting order" for dealing 
with states that support terrorism after it has dealt with the 
al-Qa'eda network in Afghanistan, he said: "Yes I do, but I 
don't want to say more than that."
He stressed that Mr Bush and the senior members of his 
cabinet with whom he had talked in the past 24 hours had 
all been resolute in dealing with terrorism wherever it was 
found in the world.
"There is a process to this and they see it as an opportunity 
to stop the growing network of terror around the world," he 
told reporters outside the White House. Mr Duncan Smith 
was the first member of an opposition party from outside 
America to have a personal meeting with the President.
Mr Bush "dropped by" when the Conservative leader was 
talking to Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, in 
what was thought to have been a carefully choreographed 
encounter designed not to offend Downing Street, and 
offered Mr Duncan Smith a formal meeting in the Oval Office.
He said he had discussed with Mr Bush a wide range of 
issues related to the war on terrorism, including the 
dangers posed by weapons of mass destruction. "They are 
at the pinnacle of this whole process of terrorism," he said, 
adding that America was determined to deal with the 
problem wherever it could be found.
He said military and other action taken by America had 
already foiled other planned terrorist attacks and that 
al-Qa'eda had cells in other countries that had been 
prepared to launch further atrocities.
Asked about whether Iraq would be next on any American 
list, Mr Duncan Smith said it was certainly the case that 
Saddam had been involved in terrorist activities in the past 
and that pressure must be placed on him to conform with 
United Nations resolutions and his own agreements to 
allow in weapons inspectors.
But he said he had urged Mr Bush to trust the public with 
classified information linking Iraq to previous terrorist 
activities. He said: "I asked everyone I met to get all that 
evidence out into the public domain. 
"I mean, how many Britons know that the first bombing of 
the World Trade Centre in 1993 was the work of the Iraqis? 
Not many, I should think. The point is that you don't have to 
link everything back to al-Qa'eda. 
"If the public gets to know quite a lot of what the American 
administration knows, they will realise that the problem lies 
outside just Afghanistan." While in Washington, Mr Duncan 
Smith repeated his strong support for Mr Bush's missile 
defence plans.
That position and the generous access that the Tory leader 
enjoyed to the President, Dick Cheney, the vice president, 
Donald Rumsfeld, the defence secretary, and other 
ministers, will not be welcomed in Downing Street.
Tony Blair has come under pressure from his own MPs not 
to support America over missile defence and the presence 
of a Tory leader at the side of a conservative Republican 
president will serve as a reminder that the Prime Minister 
and Mr Bush are far from being natural allies.

By Ben Fenton in Washington and Andy McSmith
Source:News.telegraph.co.uk 




From: allatti2d
To: Someone... anyone?
Subject: the E.S.D.'s last article
Date: Sat Dec 1 12:56:54 2001

Message:
Can someone help me?  I need some editorializing of the E.S.D.'s 
last article I just read (don't know if he's posted again since 
then, until after I hit "post message") that is entitled, 
<<12/01/2001 : "Tory leader backs Bush over attack on Saddam">>

I'm especially concerned about the public pressure on Tony Blair 
with regard to support of the U.S.  Can someone analyze this 
article or dispute it or explain it or something so I have more 
perspective on that article?  Please forgive me for my 
ignorance, but I don't know what a Tory leader is or whom he 
represents, and how that affects international diplomacy.  Thank 
you, if you are able to help.

From: allatti2d
To: Noah
Subject: allatti2d@hotmail.com
Date: Sat Dec 1 14:19:01 2001

Message:
Noah, please email me if you are unable to come to this board to 
post.  You will definitely be missed around here until you get 
your server problem resolved!  If checking your email is easier 
and less time-consuming for you, I'd appreciate a nice long note 
from you.  If it proves to be a lot quicker, I can even post 
thoughts you send me or provide you with emailed snippets of the 
conversations here.  Please let me know.  Thanks! :)

From: om/cf
To: Ali & all
Subject: Muslim on Muslim
Date: Sat Dec 1 13:43:28 2001

Message:
"You call your killings in the name of Allah and Islam, thats
in plain English, BULLSHIT".
 I cant fucking believe it, a Muslim who thinks for himself.
 How often do you hear the words Islam,Muslim or Allah
mentioned in any news, not connected to Terrorism, Suicide
bombings or needless death? Answer: almost never.
 I keep hearing about what a peacefull religion this is, and
most people outside the religion sure as hell dont see it
that way. Actions speak louder than words. Anyway, Islam has
some serious rebuilding to do on its reputation. My mind has
probably been hijacked by the Jewish owned media though.
 I will give Isreal credit, they sure keep the Palisinian/Isreali
kill ratio to the plus by a large margin. Also they at least
attack legitamate targets, I've never heard of a Isreali soldier
straping on a bomb, getting into a bus full of Palisinians
and going BOOM. They retaliate against PLO offices, right to
the scource. I sure get the impression Arafart has no control
over anything. He needs to get the fucking tablecloth of his
head and get the hell out of the way, he's a statue, a has been. 

From: om/cf
To: UK Citizen
Subject: step up to bat
Date: Sat Dec 1 14:29:36 2001

Message:
Your knowledge is needed in a post above, Sir. Also, is it
called batting in cricket?

From: allatti2d
To: (stands with a) open mind/closed fist
Date: Sat Dec 1 14:32:50 2001

Message:
Hey om/cf, are you coming to our party?  Justice USA is tending 
the barbecue... what are you gonna bring? :)

I love reading your posts, by the way, even when I don't agree 
with you, but especially when I do.

From: theE.S.D.
To: allatti2d
Date: Sat Dec 1 14:52:21 2001

Message:
this might help

http://www.toryclubsuk.net/
==========================

Tory-English political party. Also known as the Conservative 
Party.

From: allatti2d
To: the E.S.D.
Subject: Thanks!
Date: Sat Dec 1 15:06:50 2001

Message:
Thank you for that link, E.S.D. (I might just start calling you 
ED... easier to type! lol)  Do you have your own commentary or 
editorial you'd like to add to that article?  What is your 
opinion?

Thanks again!

From: theE.S.D.
To: allatti2d
Date: Sat Dec 1 14:57:13 2001

Message:
Tory-English political party.The name was used derogatorily
for the supporters of the duke of York.After 1688 the Tories 
comprised mainly country gentry who were closely 
indentified with the church of England.Reaching their zenith
under Queen Anne, with Robert Harley and Henery St. John 
as leaders.
They lost strength after the passing of the Reform Bill of 
1832.

From: theE.S.D.
To: allatti2d
Date: Sat Dec 1 15:10:16 2001

Message:
At this time we are not making commentaries as such.
We are more or less watching(and sharing) information
that concerns what the next step in the war on terror might 
be and what elements come into play.

We feel Iraq will be very difficult compared to Afghanistan.

From: allatti2d
To: the E.S.D.
Date: Sat Dec 1 15:22:56 2001

Message:
You are most appreciated for your knowledge and sharing of what 
you find.  Definitely better than any newspaper I've ever read.  
I'm glad you shared your intentions.

And regarding Iraq, I agree with (the collective) you.

From: Walter
To: om/cf
Date: Sat Dec 1 14:20:08 2001

Message:
But thats like saying in America, African Americans
                   commit 80 percent of the crimes. Your free to 
say it, but 
                          shouldnt, so as not to offend the 20 
precent.________________________________________________________

 Yes,everybody is so concerned here in America lately with 
offending people.So much that offending someone is in itself a 
crime.But most of the crimes that you're talking about are the 
primitive,violent crimes.These are mainly done by the poor,and 
many folks believe that if we try  to help them"better" 
themselves,these crimes will go away.Wrong.There will always be 
poor people,some because they are lazy,some because they are 
stupid,and some for other reasons.
 But in the last 20 years or so,there has developed a line 
between crime,and illegal.
 For example,by law,you are allowed to make 1 backup copy of any 
software you purchase.Just in case something happens to the 
original.The software companies have placed copyguards on their 
software to make you unable to do this.That,by law,is a criminal 
act.But not viewed as such.It's viewed as illegal,but not a 
crime.
 And if you download mp3's from the net,as many of us do,there 
will be more surprises down the line in that area.As of next 
year,new CD's will be encoded with a guard that will make them 
unable to be played in your computer.THEY will decide for you 
where you can play them.The RIAA has also tried to pass a 
bill(included in Bush's terrorist bill as a rider)that would 
remove any liability from them for putting a virus on CD's that 
would destroy your hard drive/computer itself,if you tried to 
copy a CD(This was later stricken from the bill).What did they 
THINK we were going to do with CD recorders?
 The point that I'm trying to make here is that big business is 
committing more crimes than anybody,but they will not be 
prosecuted,or stopped from continuing.Let you or I use these same 
tactics,and watch what happens to us.
 I would much rather have someone mess up my CD's than shoot 
me,but when they're reporting on statistics,lets get real;crime 
is crime.

From: om/cf
To: allatti2d
Subject: party
Date: Sat Dec 1 15:26:48 2001

Message:
Thanx for the invite. I'll bring baked beans and Budwieser.
And maybe a left wing, anti American liberal dragged behind
my truck to offer up as a sacrafice to Allah, ha ha.

From: EagleEye
To: UK Vomit
Subject: looks like they found your retarded American Brother
Date: Sat Dec 1 17:50:28 2001

Message:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/666055.asp

Dec. 1    Abdul Hamid is tall, thin and barefoot in a filthy 
black tunic. A prisoner of the Northern Alliance, he sits with 
his elbows bound behind his back with a strip of cloth, his 
right leg and left foot bandaged for gunshot wounds. Hamid s 
face is almost entirely covered in dirt and black soot, but it 
is quickly apparent that he is not just another beaten and 
frightened Taliban warrior. Abdul Hamid, age 20, is an American. 
He is not a naturalized citizen or disaffected Arab-American 
youth rebelling against Western culture. He is a white, educated-
sounding, apparently middle-class American, a convert to Islam 
who came to Afghanistan six months ago to help the Taliban build 
a  true Islamic state. 

From: om/cf
To: EagleEye
Date: Sat Dec 1 18:00:36 2001

Message:
Damn, talk about a bad career move!

From: Spy
To:
Subject: The pigshit fuckers strike again
Date: Sat Dec 1 18:14:15 2001

Message:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,39891,00.html

From: om/cf
To: all
Subject: osamas' wide influence
Date: Sat Dec 1 18:20:27 2001

Message:
The Muslim revolt that never came
Claude Salhani 

The great Muslim upset, or uprising, that so many political 
pundits predicted in the days and weeks following the start of 
the Afghan campaign never materialized.

And despite all those dire warnings about continuing the war 
during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan the bombing has failed 
to bring down the wrath of the world's 1.2 billion Muslims.

In fact, a report by Fareed Zakaria, editor of Newsweek 
International, quoted in the November 20 edition of the 
Washington Post, clearly shows that support for Osama Bin Laden, 
Al Qaeda and the Taliban was minimal, at best, when Taliban 
supremo Mullah Muhammad Omar was calling for mass protests 
against American bombing.

Consider the following from Zakaria's column, which quotes a 
study by Martin Indyk, former assistant secretary of state for 
Near Eastern affairs, now a senior fellow at the Brookings 
Institution, and who has tracked the number of demonstrations in 
21 Arab countries from Morocco to Dubai, since the start of the 
war:

"Here's how many anti-American demonstrations have taken place. 
Week one: nine; week two: three; week three: one; week four: 
two; week five: zero; last week: one."

The reasons are that, in effect, most Arab and Muslim 
governments   with the possible exception of Sudan - would very 
much like to see the Islamist threat disappear, just as much as 
the West would, because it threatens their security as much as 
anyone else's.

The reason much of the Islamic and Arab world remained so quiet 
in the weeks of intense bombing of Taliban and Al Qaeda 
positions in Afghanistan is because not only the leadership, but 
the vast majority of the people in those countries realize that 
the extremism of the Taliban is not for them, no matter how 
corrupt their own leaders might be. 

As Zakaria points out, "The real lesson of the Iranian 
revolution is that it did not spread anywhere and brought misery 
to its people."

The reaction of the people of Kabul and other cities liberated 
from five harsh years of Taliban dogma speaks for itself. 
Crowds, hungry for culture and information, converged in their 
hundreds on cinemas in Kabul to see whatever film they could, 
television went back on the air just days after the Taliban 
departed the capital, and electrical stores have done a brisk 
business. 

Barbershops catered to droves of customers eager to shed the 
Taliban-enforced beards, and women emerged to see the sunlight 
again from beneath their enshrouding burkhas.

The speed with which the people of Afghanistan turned against 
the Taliban speaks volumes. While Bin Laden and his followers 
wanted to turn this conflict into one of Islam versus the world, 
they have clearly failed to do so. The world is not out to get 
Islam, and neither are the majority of the world's Muslims out 
to get non-believers of the faith. Bin Laden and his followers 
had hoped to spark a revolution based on religion, but the spark 
did not take.


From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: InTheNews
Date: Sat Dec 1 19:07:52 2001

Message:
Expert: Saddam would attack Israel with non-conventional 
weapons
By David Rudge

HAIFA (November 30) - Iraqi President Saddam Hussein 
would almost certainly give the order to hit Israel with 
non-conventional weapons if he felt his regime was in 
imminent danger of destruction in the event of a major US 
attack, according to Iraqi affairs expert Prof. Amatzia Baram. 
Baram, of the University of Haifa, acted as an adviser on Iraq 
to senior officials of the American administration while on 
sabbatical in the US two years ago. 
He stressed, however, that the threat of an Iraqi retaliation 
could be reduced to virtually zero if the US and Israel were to 
adopt a series of measures, which he declined to discuss 
for security reasons. 
According to Baram, director of the university's Jewish-Arab 
Center and the Gustav-Heinemann Institute of Middle 
Eastern Studies, Iraq is believed to have between six to 50 
ballistic missiles and a few mobile launchers. 
There is also the possibility of Saddam using drones or 
suicide pilots as a means for conveying some of his 
arsenal of biological and chemical agents and even nuclear 
waste to Israel's shores. 
Baram noted that the radioactive material would be 
extremely difficult to load into bombs or missile warheads, 
and would be as dangerous to the attackers as to the 
people in the intended target area. 
It was more likely, therefore, that Saddam would try to use 
his remaining missiles fitted with biological or chemical 
agents - even though these have never been field-tested 
properly and could malfunction by burning out when 
re-entering the atmosphere or become unbalanced and go 
out of control. 
Baram revealed that Saddam had given prior orders to his 
missile commanders to launch Scuds with 
non-conventional warheads at Israel during the 1991 Gulf 
War in the event that Baghdad was surrounded and about to 
fall, and communications with himself were cut. 
The orders - never published or even publicly acknowledged 
- were gleaned by members of the UN's special 
commission to supervise Iraqi weapons of mass 
destruction from interviews with leading Iraqi officials. 
"I believe the reports of these orders, based on what we 
already know, my own studies, and interviews and from 
overt sources, to be very solid and this gives us further data 
about Saddam and his way of thinking," said Baram, who 
expounded on the issue in a recently published article in the 
highly-respected US magazine, the Monterey-based 
Non-Proliferation Review. 
On this basis, Baram is convinced that Saddam would be 
prepared to sacrifice Baghdad and all its citizens, believing 
that a non-conventional strike on Israel would result in a 
nuclear retaliation by the latter on Iraq's capital. 
"This is the Iraqi perception of Israel's likely response to a 
non-conventional Iraqi attack on its territory, although 
nobody can know for certain how Israel would react. 
"Saddam's theory, apparently, is that such massive 
destruction and loss of life certainly in Iraq and possibly in 
Israel would put an end to any war being waged against 
Iraq by America and its allies. 
"He seems to believe that he personally and most of his 
elite would be able to survive the devastation by remaining 
in their underground nuclear shelters scattered all around 
Iraq, and that after the dust and fallout settled would emerge 
and declare victory. 
"It should be stressed, however, that Saddam is not a 
suicidal type and would only give the orders for 
non-conventional attacks on Israel if he felt his regime was 
in imminent danger of collapse either from non-stop US 
bombing attacks or a massive offensive involving also the 
use of ground forces," Baram said. 
Baram maintained it was less likely that Saddam would 
order the launch of conventional missiles against Israel in 
the event of a limited US assault because this would 
expose the continued existence of such weapons, and give 
America a powerful diplomatic tool to press for indefinite 
sanctions against Iraq and the need for renewed UN 
supervision. 
He also noted that Israel a decade after the Gulf War is in a 
much better position to protect itself against missile attacks 
of any kind through the Arrow and vastly improved Patriot 
anti-missile systems. 
"Given this and other measures that could and should be 
adopted, including applying psychological pressure on the 
Iraqi army and particularly missile unit commanders, there 
is an excellent prospect of averting the Armageddon 
scenario completely," said Baram. 
"Certainly, in my opinion, the dangers do not constitute 
sufficient reasons for the US to refrain from trying to topple a 
regime that poses such a danger to stability in the region 
and the world in general. On the contrary, it seems to me 
that the US will have to eliminate Saddam's regime while 
using the measures and means which I cannot elaborate 
upon to minimize the risks," Baram added.

Source: The Jerusalem Post:

===================================
OnLineNews
*    *    *    *
Three killed in bus suicide bombing
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/11/30/News/News.3908
5.html

==================================

Soldier slain, second wounded in shooting
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/11/30/News/News.3908
6.html

==================================

Poll: Palestinian state a threat to Israel
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/11/30/News/News.3908
7.html

==================================

Terrorists decline official PA protection, fearing betrayal
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/11/30/News/News.3909
2.html

==============================================

From: theE.S.D.
To: Radio Europe
Subject: Your previous article posted: "A Study In Contrasts"
Date: Sat Dec 1 19:59:48 2001

Message:
we wanted to thank you for that.
we should have done so earlier.

From: U.K. Voices
To: anybody who wants to open their eyes.
Subject: No News Blackouts
Date: Sat Dec 1 20:11:27 2001

Message:
This article has been extracted from various sources and it is 
for information purposes only. It does not necessarily represent 
the views of Islaamic Network.
The Media has reported over the last couple of days the death of 
the first US soldier in combat. Since the Americans have now 
been operating in Afghanistan for over two months now, this 
official figure of one killed in action can mean one of two 
things: firstly that no American soldiers are on the ground in 
Afghanistan or secondly, that the US Government is attempting to 
cover up its losses in order not to panic the American public. 
To date, the number of US troops killed since the war began is 
around 500. This equates to approximately ten or so casualties 
per day, which is realisticin comparison to what the Russians 
suffered when they invaded Chechnya for the second time, in 
1999. Details are given below, from authentic sources based 
inside Afghanistan. 

72 troops were killed in the first botched raid near Kandahar. 
Their corpses remain in the mortuaries at Jacobabad Airbase, 
Pakistan.

88 troops have been killed in operations between Spin Boldak and 
Kandahar 

50 troops were killed in operations near Kabul Airport 

120 troops were killed in and around Kunduz 

8 troops were killed in other operations inside Kabul itself, 
before the Taliban withdrew from it

40 troops were killed in battles around the Badaghis mountains 

95 troops were killed in a raid on Zabul Hotel, near the Iranian 
border 

In other developments around the country, Kunar Province remains 
in control of Commander Jandad, who is pro-Taliban. Earlier this 
week, a number of Taliban Mujahideen were killed during US 
airstrikes close to the town of Takhta Pul on the highway 
between Kandahar and the Pakistani border. Another 160 of them 
who were captured, were executed in cold blood whilst being 
filmed by US troops. Obviously, the World does not raise an 
eyebrow at these 'human rights violations'. By Thursday, the 
Taliban had recaptured Takhta Pul after fierce hand-to-hand 
fighting. In Bamiyan province, a convoy of the Shiite Hizb-i-
Wahdah faction was ambushed and destroyed by the Taliban. It has 
been confirmed that Turkish military advisors are assisting 
General Dostum. 

Rumours regarding the killing of Al-Qaida spokesman Sheikh 
Sulaiman Abu Ghaith are false. Likewise there has been no 
fighting between Foreign Mujahideen and the Taliban, they are 
together and united in their stand against the Crusaders and 
their allies. The Taliban have confirmed that their withdrawal 
from the cities was purely strategic in order to protect the 
cities and the civilians from American bombardment. Dispelling 
rumours about the huge, number of Mujahideen who have been 
captured by the Crusaders and their allies, then it has been 
confirmed that this number does not exceed seven. Otherwise, the 
morale of the Taliban and the Foreign Mujahideen remains very 
high and they are relying on Allah firstly, then the 
supplications of their Muslim brothers and sisters around the 
World to make supplications for them, by name. 

The Arabs from amongst the ranks of the Foreign Mujahideen have 
confirmed that they hold in their possession a significant 
number of American and British corpses and prisoners. As 
mentioned earlier, the American and British Governments do not 
publicise this news for fear of a backlash in their public 
opinion and for fear of decreasing the morale of their soldiers 
who are still alive. There is a video cassette showing these 
captured American prisoners together with their names and ranks. 

Kandahar Airport and Kandahar city remain firmly in control of 
the Taliban. American bombardment in and around Kandahar these 
last few days has killed over 500 civilians this week alone, in 
up to 150 daily sorties. Villages to the South and the West of 
Kandahar have been completely flattened and razed to the ground, 
killing even livestock. The Taliban leader, Mullah Muhammad 
Umar, has vowed to fight the Americans to the last breath as the 
war enters a different phase. 

Under orders from its American masters, the Pakistani Government 
has allowed Pushtun gangsters, drug barons and murderers to 
enter Afghanistan with weapons and attack Taliban positions in 
and around the Pak-Afghan border town of Spin Boldak. Fighting 
is still continuing there. 

Northern Alliance Foreign Minister Dr Abdullah Abdullah informed 
the Americans that Alliance forces are not able to attack 
Taliban positions in the South of the country yet. The Americans 
therefore decided to seek assistance from Iran, who opened its 
borders and airspace to American troops to enter Helmand 
Province. The Iranian armed forces accepted and US paratroopers 
descended in the Koumailk area of Helmand Province near the 
River Douistan. A group of Mujahideen from Baluchistan besieged 
them, killing 18 in the ensuing combat and wounding 46. The 
United States Air Force planes then took off from Pakistani 
airbases (where most of the combat sorties have taken off 
despite denials by the Pakistani Government) and attacked the 
Mujahideen, killing their commander and wounding and killing 40 
more of the Mujahideen. Following this battle, the Americans 
decided to withdraw from the area altogether. The Mujahideen 
remain in control of Helmand Province. 

The Muslims are urged not to despair at the state of affairs in 
Afghanistan because Allah's will changes the tides of war. Some 
days are victorious for the Mujahideen, whilst other days are 
defeats. In the Soviet-Afghan war, the Soviets had captured all 
of Afghanistan in a matter of hours, but they left ten years 
later, humiliated and defeated. In the same way they invaded 
Chechnya but the Mujahideen there continue to kill dozens of 
them every day. Even if the Americans use weapons of mass 
destruction, which they already have in Kunduz, and the Taliban 
were to withdraw from every city in Afghanistan, the war would 
not be lost. A war is not lost by the outcome of a single 
battle. The Mujahideen will continue to fight with the weapons 
in their hands and their faith in Allah, for Victory comes only 
from Him. Allah always helps His righteous servants, even if 
after a while. Allah is certainly able to assist those who fight 
for Him as He is the Powerful, the Strong. 

The Muslims are encouraged once more to put their foreheads on 
the ground and weep their tears begging Allah to give victory to 
the Mujahideen and destroy the oppressors and tyrants who kill 
without pity, women, children, the old, the sick and even 
animals. This importance of this point cannot be stressed 
enough. 


From: U.K.Voices
To: anybody who wants to open their eyes.
Subject: More news if you look further afield..
Date: Sat Dec 1 20:17:51 2001

Message:
02 December 2001 : Over 50 American Soldiers killed during 
Botched Attack on Helmand




This article has been extracted from various sources and it is 
for information purposes only. It does not necessarily represent 
the views of Islaamic Network.
A large number of American troops backed by tanks and 
helicopters, launched a new attack on the 'strategic' city of 
Helmand. The Mujahideen awaited them patiently, and at the right 
time ambushed them using heavy artillery, BM rockets and ZSU-23 
Anti-Aircraft guns in the area of Koumalk, south of Helmand, 
close to the River Douistan. 

As a result of this offensive by the Mujahideen, around 80 US 
soldiers were killed, three tanks belonging to the United 
Nations (but used by the US) were destroyed, and two American 
Apache AH-64 helicopters were brought down, killing all 
occupants. All praise be to Allah who grants these victories. 

A number of Mujahideen were injured during the attack, but were 
taken back to their base for treatment, along with significant 
hi-tech spoils of war. The whole operation was filmed and the 
video will be soon be made public insha-Allah to prove to the 
whole world, and especially the American people, the truth about 
the Afghan Jihad and the lies spread by the US government. 

In a separate incident Saturday, the Mujahideen shot down an 
American warplane near Kandahar airport. As expected, this news 
was denied by the Pentagon, since American soldiers are never 
killed in combat, nor do they ever lose any aeroplanes nor 
equipment nor vehicles. The thousands of American soldiers 
killed in Vietnam was a myth. 

The CIA continues to assist drug barons and highwaymen in order 
to cause disorder and try to destabilise the Taliban between 
Spin Boldak and Kandahar. The Taliban launched an attack around 
the mountain areas of Spin Boldak to crush this US-supported 
militia. Following the attack, approximately 100 of the enemy 
(composed mainly of drug dealers and highway robbers) as well as 
17 of their US military 'advisors' were killed. These advisors 
organize the aerial cover and plan the militia's ground 
operations. 

The Taliban reconfirm that the town of Spin Boldak is still 
under their control and that all is well. The Taliban has also 
set up special patrols to pursue and engage the remaining 
militia who were fleeing to the mountains in the east. 

Since the arrival of the Northern Alliance in areas previously 
held by the Taliban, poppy cultivation has been started again on 
a very large scale (confirmed by the UN) with the encouragement 
of Americans. This higlights the hypocrisy and lies against the 
Taliban, who were accused by the West, of still cultivating and 
profiting from the Poppy farms. However, the reality is that the 
Taliban had completely banned the cultivation of the crop, 
thereby reducing the country's production by nearly 95%, and it 
was America's beloved Northern Alliance who were responsible for 
all the remaining production and trade. This was even confirmed 
by the United Nations. 

The Taliban reported that they had carried out a lightening 
attack against the American forces in Shandan, which resulted in 
the deaths of well over 100 American soldiers. More details on 
this will be provided soon insha-Allah. 


Human Rights 'Respected' in Mazar-i-Sharif 
In the presence and auspices of American soldiers, the 
protectors of human rights, General Dostum walked over the 
bodies of the martyred Mujahideen in the prison fortress of Qala-
e-Jhangi, while his soldiers drove tanks over their bodies to 
make sure they were dead. It is reported that an incredible 
number of rapes by his soldiers took place, also under the 
observation of US troops. These uncivilized soldiers were also 
seen by the whole world beating and shooting prisoners, kicking 
the bodies of the Mujahideen and even extracting the golden 
fillings from the mouths of Taliban who were martyred. 
The soldiers of the Northern Alliance captured around 10 wives 
of the Foreign Mujahideen and raped them several times before 
making them slaves. These women were from families who had tried 
to cross over to Pakistan, but were prevented at the border by 
Pakistani troops under the orders of the US Government. 

America and the whole world are accessories to these 
mutilations, massacres, rapes and mass injustices and owing to 
the fact that they are committed under their own eyes and 
protection. May Allah help all those who are oppressed. 

The Mujahideen inform the people that they are well and remind 
the Muslims not to be deceived or depressed by reading the lies 
of the Western media. They ask all viewers to pass on the true 
information of the situation that they receive from the 
Internet, not to forget them and the people of Afghanistan in 
their duas and increase the duas against those who cause 
corruption and oppression on the Earth. 


From: U.K. Voices
To: Still want to know more?
Subject: Shame, shame, shame.
Date: Sat Dec 1 20:20:53 2001

Message:
27 November 2001 : US Military Walks Right Into Taliban Trap 
with Ground Invasion


Praise be to Allah, the US Military has walked straight into the 
trap set for it by 'retreating' Taliban forces by landing near 
Kandahar in preparation for major ground operations in much the 
same way as its predecessor, the Soviet Union, did twenty years 
ago. The arrogance of the US Government has led it to think that 
the war is in its closing stages and only 'mopping up' 
operations remain. On the contrary, from the Mujahideen point of 
view, the war has just begun. Coming days and weeks will prove 
the miscalculation of this move by the Americans. The Muslims 
are encouraged to increase in their supplications in the month 
of Ramadan, for the rout of the Crusader forces in Kandahar. 
Until now, many Muslims have, unfortunately, trusted Western 
media reports that the Mujahideen have been defeated. However, 
they should ask themselves where are all the thousands of 
Mujahideen who have not yet entered the battle arena on a large 
scale? And where are the thousands of Taliban soldiers who 
strategically withdrew from Kabul and surrounding areas? The US 
soldiers on the ground will soon find out where they are with 
the Help of Allah. 

Mujahideen forces in Kunduz yesterday Sunday decided to vacate 
the centre of Kunduz and move to surrounding mountainous areas. 
In areas around Kunduz, there were still heavy battles in 
progress as Mujahideen guerilla units ambushed Northern Alliance 
patrols. 

Fierce fighting continues around Maidan Shahr against Alliance 
troops. The Alliance is said to have taken heavy casualties. 

In an organised martyrdom operation on Sunday evening, 500 or so 
Taliban fighters imprisoned in Mazar-i-Sharif launched an 
operation against Alliance troops loyal to General Dostum and 
approximately 100 Special Forces troops that were assisting in 
interrogating the prisoners. Fighting continued into Monday 
night with heavy casualties on both sides. Approximately 30 US 
Special Forces troops were said to have been killed and dozens 
more injured. US helicopters could be seen evacuating their dead 
and injured. 

Elsewhere in the Helmand province of Southern Afghanistan, three 
units of British SAS Special Forces were ambushed by Taliban 
forces. In the ensuing firefight, nine soldiers were killed, 
eight injured (four critically) and two soldiers were captured 
together with weapons, sophisticated night-vision devices and 
other tracking instruments


From: U.K Voices
To: old friends
Subject: Sorry to post all the above news but you need it badly
Date: Sat Dec 1 20:40:55 2001

Message:
the above posts are taken from web sites not supported by US 
media.  Just thought you need to see that there's a world out 
there.  Read and enjoy...

From: allatti2d
To:
Subject: Observation
Date: Sat Dec 1 20:31:02 2001

Message:
I worry about the children of Allah who believe this:

"The Muslims are urged not to despair at the state of affairs in 
Afghanistan because Allah's will changes the tides of war. Some 
days are victorious for the Mujahideen, whilst other days are 
defeats."

Allah's will changes the tides of war.... it seems as though 
according to the authors of that article, Allah plays games with 
his children, not caring who suffers or dies.  Is this Allah the 
one from the Koran, or is it the one that some people have built 
up in their minds?  Some Christians believe that God wants all 
non-Christians to suffer and perish.  Who are we to know the 
mind of God (or Allah)?  I say that people who believe this way 
are not true to their God, that they are representing Allah/God 
in a most distasteful way and completely misrepresenting Him.

I am sad for these people, as it appears they will never know 
the pleasures of heaven.

From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: InTheNews
Date: Sat Dec 1 20:43:05 2001

Message:
SATURDAY DECEMBER 01 2001
Churches step up mosque protest
FROM CHRISTOPHER WALKER IN JERUSALEM

CHRISTIAN leaders in Israel have accused its Government 
of treating  with virtual contempt  worldwide Church protests 
at plans to build a mosque near the spot where tradition 
says the Virgin Mary was told that she was to be the mother 
of Christ. 

In a new protest, heads of the 13 main Christian churches 
in Jerusalem urged Israel to revoke a decision to let the 
mosque be built near the Roman Catholic Basilica of the 
Annunciation in Nazareth, Israel s largest Arab town. 

The plan has already led to scuffles between Muslim and 
Christian Arabs and the Vatican has said that it would  put 
this holy place in a state of permanent siege . 

The joint statement said that building a mosque on public 
and Islamic trust land in the town was incomprehensible. 

Among the signatories were the Greek Orthodox, Armenian 
and Latin patriarchs, Franciscan Custos of the Holy Land 
and Anglican and Lutheran bishops. They said that the plan 
had been used  by certain Israeli political circles  to sow 
divisions between Muslims and Christians, and among 
Muslims themselves. 

* Israeli forces surrounded the West Bank city of Jenin early 
today, 24 hours after a Palestinian suicide bomber from a 
nearby village killed three passengers on an Israeli bus.
Source: Times Newspapers Ltd.

=====================================
OnLineNews:

War On Terror: go to ... 
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/section/0,,2001310020,00.html

=====================================

From: allatti2d
To: UKV
Subject: Propaganda?
Date: Sat Dec 1 20:44:35 2001

Message:
My first instinct is to consider all of this to be propaganda, 
designed to keep morale up in the insane extremist community.  
But I actually wouldn't be surprised if there might be more 
Americans killed than just one; however, reporters are all over 
the place in Afghanistan (can you spell CNN?), and unlike some 
other countries, our reporters are allowed to report whatever 
the hell they feel like reporting.  Mostly that is what they see 
and hear around them that they feel would give them good ratings 
in America and worldwide.  Americans being killed would be top 
news headlines around here.  I don't believe that any government 
could squelch that information.

So logic leads me to believe that this is just propaganda, 
untrue or at the minimum, extremely exaggerated.  I'm glad you 
posted this, however, because there are probably a ton of people 
who believe this report.  We need to keep in mind what kind of 
misinformation is being propagated amongst the ignorant or the 
controlled public in other countries.  How very sad.

From: EagleEye
To: UK Puke Voice eminating from your arse
Subject: Woooo hoooooo
Date: Sat Dec 1 20:35:51 2001

Message:
Whoooa, guess all the Americans are gonna be loading up and 
headin for home tomorrow - shit the towel e bam have not 
surrendered but 7 men .... and more than the 1,000 troops we 
have deployed have been killed.  Thats some serious 
investigative news sources you got there UK Vomit.

ALLAH sure is changing the tide of the war .... must be all the 
dua's the reporter asked us for.

You really should try and get your news from other sources than 
your London Mosque newsletter.  But we do appreciate you posting 
where your getting your info, and point of view from.

We all needed a good laugh.!!!!LOL!!!!

From: U.K Voices
To: EagleBrain
Subject: He's one of yours
Date: Sat Dec 1 20:43:07 2001

Message:
I just saw your post.

"Abdul Hamid, age 20, is an American. 
He is not a naturalized citizen or disaffected Arab-American 
youth rebelling against Western culture. He is a white, educated-
sounding, apparently middle-class American"

What are you trying to say about him being my brother?  You're 
so confused.  Go to sleep little child.  He's an American who 
obviously thinks that people like you are so full of shit that 
he's turned away from your filthy way of life.

From: allatti2d
To: the E.S.D.
Date: Sat Dec 1 20:56:31 2001

Message:
Sorry, ED... my last post was directed to UKV's propaganda 
post.  Didn't want any confusion there.

With regard to your post, however, I find it very sad that 
people value dirt more than human life.  I do not find any piece 
of land to be any more sacred than another.  I believe the 
construction of a mosque is an excellent idea for learning 
tolerance.  It may be bad timing to do this right now, however.  
I hope it comes to pass.  Thank you for posting that, ESD...

From: Uk Voices
To: Those who can actually see the other side
Subject: Excellent, bingo - getting thoorugh to you at last.
Date: Sat Dec 1 20:58:36 2001

Message:
See - it works.  Now do you realise that there can be other 
points of view in the world?

Just like you see this as propaganda, there are loads of equally 
mystified people watching your news and treating your news as 
propaganda.  Western Media is being seen as a big filter to stop 
real news getting out.  Can you not fathom the concept?  Do you 
know who killed Kennedy?  I bet you know it wasn't Lee H 
Oswald.  But you can't find out.   Do you trust your government 
so very much then?  O.K.  the answer must be "yes" because you 
have no other choice.  Your media and government have a roven 
track record of lies, deceit and immoral behaviour.  Why do you 
expect the world to believe it's all gone suddenly truthful in 
time of war?


From: Spy
To: U.K Voices
Subject: You forgot to dot the K.(be careful)
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:00:36 2001

Message:
"Abdul Hamid"-----so who puplishes this one of a kind 
genious?Ya got a web address for him?

how about 
http://www.hasbinladen/thedarkcaves/0,,0000000000000,00
.html

From: Spy
To: U.K Voices
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:14:42 2001

Message:
My mistake--for a minute there, I thought you had someone 
to back up your "news report".
Do let us know where you receive such prize info. (if you 
have one)

From: U.K. Voices
To: Spy
Subject: the dot is back.
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:10:57 2001

Message:
Wasamadder Spy?  Not got your little freebie software to do some 
tracing for you?  Still looking to scare people with finding out 
web addresses and tracing their IP addresses?

Hav eyou found out anything real about your anthrax alerts?  Are 
Americans still "cowering" (as reported by our media last month) 
or is there a news blackout to stop them worrying?  Come on - 
surely you know who is behind the anthrax!  I'm sure it's a 
right-wing extreme nutter (like some of the poster on this 
board) who's doen all this.  Has the FBI pulled its head out of 
its bottom and found anyone yet?  I hear they're too busy 
rounding up innocent arabs / muslims around America and then 
executng them.  Your civil rights need some investigations. 
We'll have to come down and police your government and shut down 
your illegal operations. 

Your latest Anthrax news is laughable - now somebody's crying 
about some Smallpox scare.  Get real guys.

Why do your black/asian post-office workers get treated so badly 
and why are they left exposed to the Anthrax whereas the rest of 
the people get special treatment?  We don't have such inequality 
here.  My black Afro-Carribean friends don't have to walk around 
worrying about who's going to stab them in the back.  We are a 
small nation but we're properly integrated with real respect for 
all cultures.  Learn form us and you won't be attacked so badly 
in future.  What's this about your biggest energy company going 
bust?  Don't worry - it's only money.  Oh, I forgot, that's what 
you guys worship.  Sorry to upset your sensibilities.  Goodnight.

From: Spy
To: UK FUCKHEAD
Subject: If YOU could read--you would have seen that the tracing THANK was not started by me.Fuckin' read before typing asshole.
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:24:52 2001

Message:

From:
To:
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:26:37 2001

Message:
Arafat is a terrorist.

From: om/cf
To: Voices in your head
Subject: caring
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:15:36 2001

Message:
We are so gratefull that you are showing us the truth, I know
coming from you it really hits home. You spent, what, 3-4 days
putting that shit together? You are one pathetic motherfucker.
 But its great to know America just irritates the hell out of
you. Thanks for caring.

From: U.K. Voices
To: Spy
Subject: Don't get your soiled knickers in a twist girl.
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:29:19 2001

Message:
Here ya'are Spy baby.  This is from the BBC web site....

oh - here's the URL before you cry for it again... 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1663000/16
63376.stm


Serious stuff:
US accused over bio-weapons deal

Experts see bio-weapons as one of world's biggest dangers

By the BBC's Paul Wilenius and Robbie Gibb 
The United States is putting at risk a key United Nations 
conference on deadly biological weapons which gets under way in 
Geneva on Monday. 

The conference, which is aimed at strengthening the Biological 
Weapons Convention, will be attended by up to 500 delegates 
representing up to 144 countries. 
A number of British politicians and experts have accused the 
Americans of dragging their feet following the Bush 
administration's rejection of a new protocol in July this year. 

They say the US could jeopardise moves to bring in a tough new 
inspection and enforcement regime. 

"The danger at Geneva is that there will be an endless flow of 
recriminations against the United States for what it did in July 
and August, which will make them even more resistant to coming 
back on board," warned Nicholas Sims of the London School of 
Economics in an interview on the BBC's War Report. 

New proposals 

The dispute dates back to the Bush administration's decision on 
25 July to veto a protocol aimed at giving the convention teeth. 

Yet despite the US coming up with its own new proposals, many 
countries fear this will not be enough to cope with the growing 
threat of bio-terrorism. 



The US has fallen prey to anthrax attacks
 
The dangers of biological weapons falling into terrorist hands 
is underlined by Dr Graham Pearson, the former boss of the UK 
Porton Down Biological Weapons Establishment. 

"I believe that the use of disease deliberately to harm humans, 
animals or plants, poses the greatest danger of all weapons of 
mass destruction because it had the weakest prohibition regime 
in contrast to the nuclear and chemical weapon regimes," he told 
the BBC's War Report. 

Also appearing on the programme, in his first ever broadcast 
interview, was Dr Serguei Popov, former head of both the Vector 
and Obolensk Russian biological warfare programmes. 

He raised the spectre of genetically modified biological 
weapons, which are resistant to any conventional medicine. 

"The final purpose of the programme was to create more dangerous 
biological agents... agents were engineered to be antibiotic 
resistant and even to overcome the existing vaccine," he said. 

Cool reception 

According to Nicholas Sims any new US proposals are not likely 
to be well received. 
I would expect them to be received coolly because the United 
States is seen as having disqualified itself from contributing 
to the strengthening of the convention by its rejectionist 
attitude," he said. 

There are worries that even after the terrorist attacks on 11 
September, the United States is still not convinced that 
international bodies such as the United Nations can help fight 
the war on terror. 

This follows a string of decisions by President Bush to reject 
other treaties, such the Kyoto agreement on global warming. 

Loath to commit 

Experts are also concerned that the Americans are opposing moves 
to toughen up the treaty to protect its own biological defence 
programme, as well as the US pharmaceutical industry. 

But Kenneth Adleman, a presidential adviser on defence issues, 
said the US was loathe to commit to a new convention because it 
was yet to be convinced that stronger restrictions were the 
answer. 

"I think the protocol of biological weapons may be great on 
paper but it's very different going to execution... Saddam 
Hussein has kept us out of doing any inspections, I think it's 
for the last three years, and that makes a mockery of those kind 
of conventions," he said. 

The War Report is part of the BBC's weekly On The Record 
Programme




From: Spy
To: UK Vomit
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:31:23 2001

Message:
Seeing how you can't provide an address--heres one for you
http://community.webshots.com/photo/22964122/26199693
QLPoKLUDbf

From: EagleEye
To: UK Vomit
Subject: your cornhole friend - still pissed cuz a puter kicked his ass
Date: Sat Dec 1 20:57:58 2001

Message:
Fischer speaks out to applaud Trade Centre attacks 
By David Bamber and Chris Hastings
(Filed: 02/12/2001) 


BOBBY FISCHER, the reclusive American chess grandmaster, has 
broken years of silence to support the terrorist attacks on the 
World Trade Centre and the Pentagon.

The Telegraph has discovered that Mr Fischer gave an interview 
to an obscure radio station in the Philippines hours after the 
events on September 11.

Mr Fischer is already wanted for questioning by the FBI for 
breaking UN sanctions by taking part in a chess match in Serbia 
against Boris Spassky in 1992 - his first for 20 years.

In his interview on September 11 with Radio Bombo in Baguio 
City, Mr Fischer said: "This is all wonderful news. It is time 
to finish off the US once and for all.

"I was happy and could not believe what was happening. All the 
crimes the US has committed in the world. This just shows, what 
goes around comes around, even to the US.

"I applaud the act. The US and Israel have been slaughtering the 
Palestinians for years. Now it is coming back at the US."

Mr Fischer, 58, also attacked Israel and "Jews" who he claimed 
were responsible for "bringing" the attack on the World Trade 
Centre. He gave the interview because he is a friend of Pablo 
Mercado, the station manager. They met through their mutual 
friend Eugene Torre, the Filipino chess grandmaster.

Last night Mr Mercado confirmed that he took the call from Mr 
Fischer and then interviewed him live on air. He has met Mr 
Fischer on several previous occasions with Mr Torre. 

Mr Mercado said: "Bobby rang me up while he was watching the 
events in New York live on television. He felt so strongly about 
what he was watching, he wanted to say the American government 
had it coming to them.

"I was shocked but not surprised. I know his views about America 
because I have spoken to him on a number of occasions and met 
him through our mutual friend Eugene Torre. It is Bobby Fischer 
without a shadow of a doubt."

Mr Mercado said that Mr Fischer had put on weight since his last 
public appearance and talked constantly of his old chess 
matches. He always carried chess books with him.

The Telegraph tracked down Mr Fischer to his hideaway in Japan 
on Friday but he put the telephone down. Mr Fischer, who has 
been a grandmaster since the 1950s, became the first - and so 
far only - American world champion in 1972.

He disappeared for the best part of 20 years before surfacing in 
1992 to play against his old opponent Spassky for $5 million.

The match broke sanctions imposed by the United Nations and in a 
controversial move he was indicted in the United States. 
President George Bush, the father of the current president, gave 
his personal approval for the legal action.

Mr Fischer, who usually lives in Hungary, is a well-known anti-
Semite who has spoken out against "the international Jewish 
conspiracy".

From: Spy
To: U.K. Voices
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:35:10 2001

Message:
Thats not the article I'm looking for.Wheres the facts to back 
up your earlier post? "02 December 2001 : Over 50 
American Soldiers killed during 
Botched Attack on Helmand"
Come on Smart guy--show your stuff.

From: U.K.Voices
To: om/cf
Subject: "pathetic motherfucker"
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:33:05 2001

Message:
Is that all you can come back with?  Swearing again?  Shows that 
you're rattled again.  At least give us some irrefutable facts. 
What? You don't have any?  How about your free press?  Yeah - 
that's right, now you know what you're up against.  Your press 
is in cahoots and you are the little pawns but made to feel like 
the free people.   Good luck trying to find out anything.  
You'll have to come here to the UK for that.  But don't worry, I 
don't mind spoon-feeding you as that's how you're used to 
hearing your news anyways.

For your kind information dear little spolit child, I didn't 
have to make that up. But if you want to believe I would and 
that more than half the world doesn't see these stories then 
feel free.  After all you're in the land of the free.  Free to 
be ignorant anyway.  The rest of us are in the land of reality.  
We can explain "reality" to you if you guys want to attend a 
lecture on it.

Here's more from our world-reknowned BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1629000/16
29056.stm
By BBC News Online's Megan Lane in New York 

As New York wakes up to news of the city's first confirmed case 
of inhalation anthrax - and warnings of a new terror attack - 
few commuters are comfortable going underground to catch the 
subway. 

The New York subway is famously dirty, noisy and initially 
disquieting, although it is a great deal safer than it used to 
be. 

Whereas once commuters and tourists might have worried about 
muggers or stray nutters running amok, those fears have now 
turned to possible terror attacks. 



From: U.K Voices
To: BirdBrain Eagle
Subject: Further Eveidence of American oppression...
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:43:48 2001

Message:
"Mr Fischer is already wanted for questioning by the FBI for 
breaking UN sanctions by taking part in a chess match in Serbia 
against Boris Spassky in 1992 - his first for 20 years"

What's the great superpower America so afraid of?  Why put 
sanctions on stopping this guy playing chess in Serbia.  How 
paranoid and screwed up can your country get?  Appalling!  Grow 
up USA!  Before the whole world laughs at you.

BTW tiny-brained eagle stain, you make fun of Fischer chess 
abilities but he can play the game far better than you can even 
think of setting up a chess board.  Hypocrite!  Surely that's 
not another American trait.

From: Spy
To: UK Voices
Subject: Why the fuck do you give us all these addresses on news I've already read--but you won't back up your earlier post? BECAUSE YOU FUCKIN' CAN'T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:46:42 2001

Message:
You are a FUCKIN" LIAR, PERIOD.

From: allatti2d
To: UKV
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:23:38 2001

Message:
"Your media and government have a roven track record of lies, 
deceit and immoral behaviour."

(roven -- did you mean proven?)

I'd like you to provide me with any information and sources you 
can about our media's track record of lies, please.  In other 
words, qualify your statement with proof.  (Don't bother about 
the government; I already know they lie.  It's natural -- in 
fact, I think it's an initiation process in learning to become a 
politician.)  You'll also have to provide me with the track 
record of media lies everywhere else in the world, since none of 
the other countries are reporting more American deaths, so far 
as I know.

Remember, V, this is a different war.  Tactical, 'smart' weapons 
are being used.  Our troops have been trained to the neck.  Most 
of the initial attacks were performed from far away, not on the 
front lines.  In fact, there really are no front lines to be 
identified.  We're not fighting a country, we're not hunting 
down people with red insignias on their shirts, we're not doing 
much of anything we've ever done before in wartime.  Thank you, 
however, for the new perspectives.

From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: InTheNews
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:59:54 2001

Message:
10 Saudis identified in US-led war

Updated on 12/1/2001 9:33:25 AM
 
JEDDAH (NNI): At least 15 Saudis and 13 Yemenis fighting 
alongside the Taleban have been killed since the start of the 
US-led war in Afghanistan on Oct. 

7, the Okaz newspaper reported. 

Quoting unidentified sources, the paper published the 
names and hometowns of 10 of the 15 Saudi nationals it 
said were killed. 

According to Okaz, they were Adil Rashid Al-Woraik 
(Alkhobar), Abdullah Al-Shubanat (Qassim), Sami Al-Harby 
(Riyadh), Rashid Al-Hawni (Qassim), Abdul Wahid 
Al-Qahtani (Riyadh), Yusuf Al-Madani (Madinah), Muadh 
Baashan (Makkah), Asim Al-Tihami (Abha), Faihan Al-Otaiby 
and Zaidan Muhammad Al-Shehari, 22. 

Source:TheFrontierPost

From: om/cf
To: American Voices
Subject: go ahead and admit it
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:47:45 2001

Message:
Its so obvious that you are completly fascinated with America
its driving you nutty. Its great, spy gets you riled and you
cant spell anymore! LOL, good show old chapped arse. Stray
nutters running amok, LOL. Yes they are and your the head nutter.

From: Spy
To: UK Voices
Subject: the WHO
Date: Sat Dec 1 22:06:18 2001

Message:
Flippin' the channels and there's the BRITISH Rock group 
playin' their show in front of a BIG RED, WHITE & BLUE 
AMERICAN FLAG !!! he he he---



From: allatti2d
To: UKVoiceless
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:59:48 2001

Message:
Sorry, didn't mean to address you like I did.  I thought you 
were someone else.  I mistook you for a person.  My bad.

From: U.K. Voices
To: allatti2d
Subject: some snippets of info: Your media is totally biased.
Date: Sat Dec 1 22:22:47 2001

Message:
You are mistaken about me caring for (let alone being fascinated 
by) America.  I can see why you are so easily misled.  You might 
not have any interest in any other country but the rest of the 
world does have general knowledge of other countries.  I'm only 
displaying general knowledge of America.  I'm sure that for an 
American to show such awareness of any other country than the 
US, it would be considered that he/she studied the country and 
attained some kind of PhD (by american standards) before knowing 
where the country is.

Anyway, back to the topic of your ignorance:

Your words........
"and unlike some other countries, our reporters are allowed to 
report whatever the hell they feel like reporting.  Mostly that 
is what they see and hear around them that they feel would give 
them good ratings in America and worldwide.  Americans being 
killed would be top news headlines around here.  I don't believe 
that any government could squelch that information."

Big concepts from gullible Americans.  But here's some articles 
supporting evidence that you guys are more in the dark than the 
rest of the world...

This first article shows how the "land of the free" is 
suppressing information.  Big question is why?  Read the article 
before crying that it's for military tactics or something fancy.

>http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,575594,00.htm
l
>
>Duncan Campbell
>Wednesday October 17, 2001
>The Guardian
>
>The Pentagon has spent millions of dollars to prevent western 
media from 
>seeing highly accurate civilian satellite pictures of the 
effects of 
>bombing in Afghanistan, it was revealed yesterday.
>
>The images, which are taken from Ikonos, an advanced civilian 
satellite 
>launched in 1999, are better than the spy satellite pictures 
available to 
>the military during most of the cold war.
>
>The extraordinary detail of the images already taken by the 
satellite 
>includes a line of terrorist trainees marching between training 
camps at 
>Jalalabad. At the same resolution, it would be possible to see 
bodies lying 
>on the ground after last week's bombing attacks.
>
>Under American law, the US defence department has legal power 
to exercise 
>"shutter control" over civilian satellites launched from the US 
in order to 
>prevent enemies using the images while America is at war. But 
no order for 
>shutter control was given, even after the bombing raids began 
10 days ago.
>
>The decision to shut down access to satellite images was taken 
last 
>Thursday, after reports of heavy civilian casualties from the 
overnight 
>bombing of training camps near Darunta, north-west of 
Jalalabad. Instead of 
>invoking its legal powers, the Pentagon bought exclusive rights 
to all 
>Ikonos satellite pictures of Afghanistan off Space Imaging, the 
company 
>which runs the satellite. The agreement was made 
retrospectively to the 
>start of the bombing raids.
>
>The US military does not need the pictures for its own purposes 
because it 
>already has six imaging satellites in orbit, augmented by a 
seventh 
>launched last weekend. Four of the satellites, called Keyholes, 
take 
>photographic images estimated to be six to 10 times better than 
the 1 metre 
>resolution available from Ikonos.
>
>The decision to use commercial rather than legal powers to bar 
access to 
>satellite images was heavily criticised by US intelligence 
specialists last 
>night. Since images of the bombed Afghan bases would not have 
shown the 
>position of US forces or compromised US military security, the 
ban could 
>have been challenged by news media as being a breach of the 
First 
>Amendment, which guarantees press freedom.
>
>"If they had imposed shutter control, it is entirely possible 
that news 
>organisations would have filed a lawsuit against the government 
arguing 
>prior restraint censorship," said Dr John Pike, of 
Globalsecurity, a US 
>website which publishes satellite images of military and 
alleged terrorist 
>facilities around the world.
>
>The only alternative source of accurate satellite images would 
be the 
>Russian Cosmos system. But Russia has not yet decided to step 
into the 
>information void created by the Pentagon deal with Space 
Imaging.
>
>  Duncan Campbell is a writer on intelligence matters, and is 
not the 
>Guardian's Los Angeles correspondent of the same name.
>
>
>
>
>http://www.sptimes.com/News/101601/Worldandnation/US_military_bu
ys_righ.shtml
>
>U.S. military buys rights to satellite images
>   The deal keeps other eyes off the war zone and allows a 
different look.
> Associated Press,
>published October 16, 2001
>
>


This second article shows how your media is controlled....

American Journalist Tells Students U.S. Mideast Coverage "Biased"


EVANSTON, Nov 13 (IslamOnline & News Agencies) - An American 
journalist who
has reported from the Middle East said on Sunday that U.S. news 
coverage of
the region is biased towards Israel, often ignoring the country's
discrimination and violence toward Palestinians, Northwestern 
University's
Daily newspaper reported.

Alison Weir, a freelance reporter who lived in Afghanistan for 
more than a
year and spent a month reporting in the West Bank and Gaza 
Strip, told
roughly 100 Northwestern University students and Evanston 
residents in
Harris Hall that the biased reporting was "consciously contrived
manipulation of news."

She called it a "cover-up" of a region of the world that seems 
distant,
confusing and irrelevant to most Americans' daily lives.

"This is the most censored story I've ever encountered," Weir 
said.

Weir's experiences in the Palestinian-populated area were much 
different
from what she expected, said the paper. She said the region 
usually is
portrayed as anti-American and hostile toward women, but she was 
surprised
at how welcoming and friendly the people were.

While she was in the West Bank and Gaza, Weir submitted four 
articles to
past employers, but none were published.

She said her articles focused more on the impact of the fighting 
on
Palestinians, while newspapers reported Israeli deaths in the 
headlines and
Palestinian deaths in the body text.

She tied the U.S. media's bias to the large amount of money that 
Israel
annually receives from the U.S. to buy arms. She said cutting 
off support to
Israel might make them more willing to compromise with the 
Palestinians.

"Palestinians are dying by the ammunition bought with American 
taxpayers'
money," Weir said. "Our blank check to Israel is preventing the 
peace
process that needs to take place."

She listed ways Israelis discriminate against Palestinians, 
saying Israelis
are building highways, or "bypass roads," in the occupied 
territories that
Palestinian cars marked with different colored license plates 
are not
allowed to use.

Checkpoints, heavily guarded by soldiers - Weir called 
them "death points" -
often denied Palestinians access to extensive areas within 
Israel, she said.

Palestinians called "terrorists" are actually "terrorized 
victims who [have]
tragically, but explicably, turned to violence [themselves]," 
Weir said.

Earlier in October, Northwestern University (NU) and University 
of Chicago
professors presented a public forum about Islamic views of the 
United States
before a large crowd.

Sponsored by NU's Center for International and Comparative 
Studies, the
panel focused on the challenges facing followers of Islam in the 
wake of the
September 11 attacks.

Panelists highlighted historical events that have shaped the way 
Muslims in
the Middle East and the former Soviet republic view the United 
States.


This third article is self explanatory..

>10. Protesters clash over CNN coverage
>
>(NEWS DAY): About 200 people rallied against CNN's coverage of 
the war in 
>Afghanistan, leading to three arrests. "CNN, half the story, 
all the time," 
>they chanted Saturday at CNN Center. The protesters said 
millions of 
>refugees and residents in Afghanistan face starvation but CNN 
isn't telling 
>the story.
>
>http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-brf-cnn-
arrests1111nov11.story
>


EVEN MORE!....

>(RENSE): Stephen Gowans: "As the devastation in Afghanistan 
becomes 
>clearer, as stories of broken bodies and blood and flattened 
Red Cross 
>depots and orphaned children and weeping mothers trickle out of 
the 
>war-torn and drought-stricken country, the White House and the 
State 
>Department and the Pentagon fire back: Don't believe it. It's 
propaganda... 
>Why is there so much Washington doesn't want you to know?"
>
>http://www.rense.com/general16/ourmasters.htm


More...!
Jack Kelley of USA Today wrote a cover story called
"Vigilantes take up arms, vow to expel 'Muslim filth'".

In it, he describes Israeli extremists and terrorists
and their hatred of Muslims. It was one of the best and
objective major cover stories exposing the Israeli
terrorism against Palestinians. 

Mr. Kelley received over 300 emails from Zionists all
around the world condemning his story. 

He received 5 positive emails. 

Mr. Kelley is very upset because he is under tremendous
and overwhelming pressure from the criticism pouring
down on him from Zionists worldwide due to his truthful
article. 

The article can be found at: 

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20010904/3599125s.htm 




From: Spy
To: UK Voices
Date: Sat Dec 1 22:25:14 2001

Message:
Well--looks like you wrote a whole bunch of shit again and 
didn't say one thing ( except that you are a hate filled 
liar---but we already knew that too).
Shouldn't waste so much of your valuable time.
Hey--maybe you can start up your own newspaper and then 
you'll have a source for your "news".

From: U.K. Voices
To: Spy
Subject: Dear, dear, calm down.
Date: Sat Dec 1 22:31:15 2001

Message:
You've got to expand your vocab and learn some other words 
rather than these filthy swear words. 

Our band was playing in front of an american flag for your 
benifit becasue we know how hurt your ego is at this moment.

Some people care about your little sensibilities.

Now stop whining about that URL.  You know it's atuhentic and 
you know where to find it.  Don't be such a moron who can't find 
an article for awd sake!  You're the big man who's been boasting 
of your internet spying skills.  Has you ineptitude been exposed?

From: Spy
To: U.K. Voices
Subject: put up or shut up
Date: Sat Dec 1 22:37:56 2001

Message:
Well ain't that too FUCKIN" bad--I'm sure as FUCK not going 
to appease you.
NOW----where's the Proof---let me repeat myself.
Wheres the facts to back up your earlier post?
 "02 December 2001 : Over 50 
American Soldiers killed during 
Botched Attack on Helmand"


From: Spy
To: UK Vomit Voices
Date: Sat Dec 1 22:44:24 2001

Message:
Go back to your family porn bussiness---it's your only 
calling.

From: new visitor
To: UKV shithead
Subject: the taliban's kickin' ass
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:59:37 2001

Message:
Thanks for the good laugh.  Maybe you should move to Afganistan 
and send us first hand propaganda.  

I hear we are also missing a couple air-craft carrier groups and 
hundreds planes.  Oh Yeah, -those are the ones headed to Iraq.

Peace Baby.

From: EagleEye
To: UK Vomit emissions
Subject: God's Speed ... to the FBI
Date: Sat Dec 1 22:20:08 2001

Message:
"Has the FBI pulled its head out of 
its bottom and found anyone yet?  I hear they're too busy 
rounding up innocent arabs / muslims around America and then 
executng them."  

bismallah ....... Not nearly fast enough, but I'll settle for 
deportation vs. Towel e ban style Upper appendage removal.

"Your civil rights need some investigations. 
We'll have to come down and police your government and shut down 
your illegal operations."

Buuuwwahahhahhahaha hahahahahahahah hahahaha .... what with all 
3 of the ships you have left that didnt get sunk by the dumb ass 
Falkland Argentinian Bandits? Are those viscious bobbies gonna 
come over and shout at us?  Look, we kicked you the fuck off our 
rock before, and BY JOE we'll do it again - or have you CHAP's 
forgotten that lesson?  And wait ..... will you please please 
please help us with our Civil Rights issues - we wanna do the 
Arabs like you did the Irish - that looked so fuuun. Tomorrow is 
Sunday, Bloody Sunday.

""Why do your black/asian post-office workers get treated so 
badly 
and why are they left exposed to the Anthrax whereas the rest of 
the people get special treatment? ""

Nice commentary - care to expound on this tripe with some fact 
or should we just ignore your mentally deranged op-ed here?


""We don't have such inequality 
here.  My black Afro-Carribean friends don't have to walk around 
worrying about who's going to stab them in the back.""

Most criminals dont have to worry about things like that.
  
""  We are a 
small nation but we're properly integrated with real respect for 
all cultures.""  

Im sure your surrounded with Jewish and Christian friends, and 
their so loved in your circle of inner idiots at the local pub.

""Learn form us and you won't be attacked so badly 
in future.""  

Of course you dont get attacked so badly ... its well known UK 
is the happening spot for terror cells - they dont wanna blow 
their own shit up nor spoil a good thing.  They got it nice and 
cozy over there  - especially with your panzy legal system and 
those buffoons with big blue hats and clubs walking the streets 
w/ a badge picking on all the skin heads and other nancy pants 
girls you run with.  Hows it feel to be the willing supplicant 
to the Arabs and Muslim Mullahs - watching your once proud 
people cower at their mere presence as they breathe hate and 
terror from the mosques ... and you knickered little pukes just 
sit back and suck their teet like piglets.  "Oh dont get upset 
with us please dont hurt us little white sissy's here in the 
UK ... we respect your rights to kill us all.....you big burley 
bad ass towel heads.  You look so mean with just one eye."

""What's this about your biggest energy company going 
bust? " 

Pimple on a gnats ass - such as yourself.  This too shall pass.  
Its actually  good thing.  They were attempting to manipulate a 
fucked up system of dealing with our energy and got caught with 
their perverbial teet in the ringer.  Cie la vie.  Plenty more 
companies around to pick up the slack - always has been - always 
will be.  Unlike your msierable little fog engulfed island of 
paleness - we will have no problem dealing with this issue.  At 
least we can get a fucking train/rail system running and on 
budget - for fucks sake how pathetic are you people?  How long 
have trains been around, and you still cant get that shit 
figured out?


""Don't worry - it's only money.Oh, I forgot, that's what you 
guys worship.""

Well at least its real and here today ..... which is more than I 
can say about some dumb ass' "flight of enlightenment".  Now I 
know where the Mormons got their golden birds, tablets and 
goggle bullshit.


From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: OnLineNews
Date: Sat Dec 1 22:57:36 2001

Message:
US military gears up for endgame
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_16
82000/1682713.stm

=========================================
 
British special forces praised by US
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_168700
0/1687064.stm

=========================================

From: North Carolina gal
To: Allatti2d
Subject: Still Hope
Date: Sat Dec 1 21:58:54 2001

Message:
made my day when I read that there was still hope that 
U.K.Citizen  might reconsider rejoining this board...He has been 
missed.  I know that I haven't posted often but will try to get 
over my stage fright!  This board has been such a learning 
experince for me but, still have the fear of acting as a fool.  
What has givin me the most strength has been so many of us have 
come together and united with each other....

From: EagleEye
To: UK VoiceOver
Subject: Satellite Images
Date: Sat Dec 1 22:53:37 2001

Message:
Actually, Tony Blair is re-imbursing us I heard.  He was utterly 
humilaited when the images of dead SAS slaughtered by Taliban 
women were filling the screen.  Evidently the bitches uncrossed 
their legs and the stench floored the un-suspecting SAS, and 
then the towel e bam militia rushed in and took advantage of 
their temporary disorientation, and wiped them out.

From: Mullah Enaud
To: All Americans
Subject: Thank you!
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:01:45 2001

Message:
Thank you for giving us the chance to join your wonderful union.
You are are such nice wonderful people to help us rid our 
country (soon to be state) of the Taliban menace.

May Allah bless you all,
Mullah Enaud
Mullah_Enaud@Afghansas.com

http://www.Aghansas.com

From: EagleEye
To: UK Voice of Fools
Subject: Bow to your Mullah bitch
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:03:35 2001

Message:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/11/27/gen.qatada.transcript.
cnna/index.html

LONDON, England (CNN) -- London Muslim cleric Abu Qatada has 
been convicted in Jordan for inciting terrorist acts and has 
been linked by Spanish authorities to people with alleged ties 
to Osama bin Laden. In his first TV interview with Western media 
since September 11, he spoke with CNN Chief International 
Correspondent Christiane Amanpour. 


From: om/cf
To: Uk Vomit Breath
Subject: Great Britian
Date: Sat Dec 1 22:37:50 2001

Message:
Most American childrens' first impression of the British armed
forces comes from the study of the American Revoulution. I can
still recall the laughter when told of the Redcoats marching in
to battle like walking stiff zombies with their brightly colored
uniforms standing out like the sun in the wilderness while they
were picked off like flys by the smarter enemy hiding in the
trees. Red uniforms, LOL!
 America kicked you arses a couple of times and saved your little
rock for your impotant arse and still obnoxious buttheads like
you belittle your savior. And you talk about Americans egos.
Hell, the Northern Alliance didnt want your best SAS involved
at all for fear they would turn the operation into a goatfuck.
 Well at least your troops had few hurt, and your media had
little to report other than Blair jetting around the world
kissing asses. He had more action than your troops.

From: Spy
To: UK Asswipe
Subject: where'd ya go?--ya get bumped offline again
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:10:19 2001

Message:

From: allatti2d
To: UKVoiceless
Subject: you make me laugh!!
Date: Sat Dec 1 22:32:48 2001

Message:
Thanks for the chuckle, old boy.  Reporting articles from the 
Guardian would be the same thing if I reported bat-boy and Elvis 
sightings from the National Enquirer.  

I wasn't familiar with Rense.com, so I checked out their site.  
Turns out they have exactly 4 columnists and they mostly talk 
about UFOs and crop circles, as well as typical conspiracy 
theory crapola.  The article you posted from that obviously 
newsworthy site really made me giggle.  Thanks!

It's funny what you posted with regard to the newsday.com 
article.  You obviously don't have much of an education, do 
you?  That article was not reporting that CNN reports half the 
story; it was saying that some PROTESTORS were making that 
claim.  Ha!!  I tried to get to the entire article (since you 
only posted a few sentences from it) so I could find the 
information in context, but after about 6 attempts, I could not 
get to this supposed article.  I even tried doing a search at 
newsday.com, but it didn't have anything at all.  Either you 
made that up, it came from some weird archive, or it was from 
another publication altogether.  Boy, you really are not the 
brightest apple in the bunch, are you?

You also posted yet another article from the obviously unbiased 
IslamOnline & News Agencies.  Giggling all over again!!!!

By the way, maybe you should have read Jack Kelly's USA Today 
article for yourself before embarrassing yourself with 
commentary.  I don't know if I should try to explain it to you, 
because you might not understand, but I'll use small words for 
your benefit.  Jack Kelly reported the attacks by extremist 
zionist settlers in Israel on innocent Palestinians, which was 
damned by Israeli officials.  Here is a quote from his article:

"The almost daily attacks have been condemned by nearly all 
Israelis, including most settlers. Politicians, who fear the 
extremists will spoil Israel's attempt to portray itself as the 
victim rather than the aggressor in this conflict, have been the 
most vocal.

" 'These Jewish terrorists are criminals,' Israeli Foreign 
Minister Shimon Peres says. 'They've gone too far.'"

I could not find anywhere where Jack Kelly was "upset."  Did you 
make that up too, or did you borrow another sentiment from 
IslamOnline?  I don't believe you actually think for yourself; 
that would take too many precious brain cells.

And finally, I could not help but double over with laughter at 
the idea that you thought I said you cared about America!!!  You 
sure don't know how to read.  No wonder you're so bitter!  I 
understand you so much better now, my poor moronic friend.  You 
are uneducated and unable to process information, and perhaps 
you belong in a home.  Now I understand why you hate the people 
on this board.  They all outshine the brilliance you believe you 
have, and you just don't understand why.  Tsk tsk tsk!  Not nice 
to laugh at the mentally challenged!!

From: EagleEye
To: Mullah Enaud
Subject: I am sorry ........
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:08:09 2001

Message:
to "you" for the hardships your fellow countrymen and women have 
had to endure.  I am sorry for our errant bombs that killed 
innocent afghans.   It appears that you realize that those were 
honest mistakes and that we were not trying to do that 
intentionally.

I hope the Northern Alliance does not take advantage and harm 
many people during their interim control.  I hope that food and 
aid gets to the people in your country that need it quickly.

And to "you" I apologize for the errant comments I have made 
about Muslims and Islam, you sir are the very first Muslim I 
have heard say thank you, or "any" decent word about America 
since 9/11/01.

From: Spy
To: North Carolina gal
Subject: welcome to the board---
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:25:07 2001

Message:

From: North Carolina Gal
To: Spy
Subject: Glad to be here
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:32:41 2001

Message:
Thanks  for the welcome  ...It means alot

From: allatti2d
To: EagleEye, et al.
Subject: UKVoiceless
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:20:59 2001

Message:
Listen you guys, don't be too hard on the true Brits or their 
country.  This retard (UKV) obviously only represents the ones 
in the sanitarium who drool next to him.  He is obviously very 
stupid and very uneducated, and he hasn't much sense to boot.  
There is no way that he represents GB or the UK any more than 
OBL represents Islam.  UKVoiceless is, in short, a fool.  Please 
don't hold his residence against his country!

BY THE WAY... I was curious after reading Mullah Enaud's post up 
there, so I checked out his/her site, www.Afghansas.com.  It is 
well worth the look!!!  Check out the tune posted there:

* * * * * * * *
KILL 'EM ALL 

(to the tune of Bless'em all.) 

Kill 'em all! Kill 'em all! 

The long and the short and the tall; 

Kill all the al Qaeda and all the Taliban, 

Kill their sick leader Osama bin Laden, 

`cause we're saying good-bye to them all 

As back to their holes they crawl, 

We'll get rightful justice

For those who have left us,

So cheer up, my friends, Kill 'em all!

Everybody knows what evil they've done, 

So cheer up, my friends, Kill 'em all! 

* * * * * * * *

There's a lot of really great stuff at that site.  Be sure to 
check out the weather!!!!  ROFL!!!!  I know Spy and EagleEye 
especially will appreciate that site!

Thanks, Mullah!!  Rock On!

From: allatti2d
To: North Carolina Gal
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:37:11 2001

Message:
Thanks for the message, NCGal.  I will pass your post along to 
U.K. Citizen.  I sure wish you'd post here more often!  The 
estrogen is outnumbered by the testosterone by a factor of about 
75 to 1.  Don't be shy!!

From: Spy
To: allatti2d
Subject: Hey--did ya see this---cool---
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:53:59 2001

Message:
http://afghansas.com/brakes.asp



(was that you in the beer commercial---ha ha ha)

From: Noah
To: UK Voices
Subject: Hee hee
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:17:05 2001

Message:
You're pretty hilarious. I don't know if you mean to be, but you 
have officially earned the clown award from me. In the 
amazing case that you aren't joking with us, I have another 
great movie to recommend - "Conspiracy Theory". If you 
haven't seen it yet, you'll get a kick out of it. Real world...HA!

From: om/cf
To: North Carolina Gal
Subject: welcome
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:47:25 2001

Message:
Just throw your 2 cents in whenever you can. Dont worry about
being a fool, if you've read some posts (mine included) there
are no rocket scientists here! Welcome.

From: Spy
To: Mullah Enaud
Subject: Thank You
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:56:21 2001

Message:
Thank you for your kind words and thanks for the web 
address.
I sure hope things get much better for your nation. I'm sorry
for all the damage the taliban and bin Laden did to your 
country.
Please return to this board if you feel like it.
Thanks again---your post made it worthwhile.

From: allatti2d
To: Spy
Subject: Nope...
Date: Sun Dec 2 00:03:42 2001

Message:
Not me in the beer ad, sorry to disappoint you! :)  I do have a 
blouse like hers, though... I sent my pic to a couple of people 
from this board who wrote emails to me (yes, including U.K. 
Citizen).  The other board I belong to is a Discus board, which 
is really nice and advanced and lets us post pictures and files 
and everything we want.  This board won't even let me use html, 
unfortunately!  Oh well, probably not the place for it anyway.

Did you enjoy that Afghansas site?  I thought you might!  Loved 
the weather and the governor's page, too, as well as the road 
conditions.  Someone very talented is at work there.  I even 
looked at the legal disclaimer (link at the bottom).  Make sure 
you check out everything there!  I hope Mullah posts here again.

From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: OnLineNews
Date: Sun Dec 2 00:34:34 2001

Message:
=========================================
Pakistan and Iran resume defence ties
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1
686000/1686927.stm
=========================================
Iran and Pakistan Deport Afghans, U.N. Aides Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/01/international/asia/01RE
FU.html?ex=1007874000&en=3970bb3c239d19ea&ei=504
0&partner=MOREOVER
=========================================

From: Beerfart American
To: UK Dope
Subject: Your Bullshit
Date: Sun Dec 2 00:02:31 2001

Message:
Your country is supporting us and we appreciate that.  A couple 
of your ragheads who went ouyt jihading got kilt in Afghanistan. 
Serves 'em right.  But to the point.    You are such a stupid 
shit.  The American people support the asskicking going on in 
Afghanistan even if it means casualties. We know there will be, 
maybe have been, casualties. That happens in war, nimrod. You 
still have not given a citation for your source for all these 
alleged US casualties.  You be pathetic.  But you gotta 
understand something:  Even if those casualty figures were 
right, 90% of the American people would still support our 
actions.  And by the way, you think the press is more free in 
Arab countries than here ?  Huh ?   So what's your point ?  That 
the Pentagon isn't leveling with us during a war ?  No shit.  We 
know that, knucklehead.  We just want the job done as soon as 
humanly possible and on to the next place these terrorist pricks 
breed.  One last question.  If your guys are doing so well, why 
have they lost control of so much territory.  Wait, wait, I 
know.  It's a strategic retreat to begin the pussy shit war from 
caves.  Bottom line--and you must know this--we will not fail.

From: Noah
To: Everyone
Subject: false alarm
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:59:29 2001

Message:
Wow, I was wrong, even though excite at home is bankrupt, 
they apparrently still have service. It was out earlier today 
and alarmed me abit. Anyhow, UK Voice has made it a busy 
night here! 

Allatti2d, thanks for the email address, I'll try to find time to 
write more than my usual post. You're analysis of UK voices 
seemed pretty right-on to me. I still have heard very little 
comprehension in any responses to the others of this 
board. English and cognition as a second language... Well, 
it makes for some fun doesn't it? I'll be up farly late tonight 
cause I'm making creme brulee. Should be quite good to 
pack on the fat after a good day of climbing tomorrow. 

EagleEye, you're a good man. Behind all that anger and 
attack, I am glad to be able to see some feeling. That's one 
of the biggies that separates you, as an attacker, and 
people like walter. I enjoy your humanity and though I 
sometimes am offended, I recover quickly and appreciate 
your content for the most part. Just wanna say, "go on with 
yo bad self!" 

NC gal - yay! keep posting. Have no fear! I'm sure I've shown 
myself to be quite the idiot sometimes, but noone seems to 
mind too much. Allatti2d is right, you've got the women on 
your side :-). 

John, haven't heard from you in a while, I hope all is well 
with you. 

Ashraf, I haven't heard too much from you lately either. Is the 
board too crazy? Maybe for some, it is time to move on. You 
had some good things to say and are a very good person. I 
wish all the best to you and yours in Dubai. 

And to the rest, I wish for your children to never know strife, 
that one day soon, we might have heaven on Earth. 

From: John
To: Mullah Enaud
Subject: I look forward to the day I vacation in Afghanistan, a few short years from now.
Date: Sat Dec 1 23:41:35 2001

Message:
Yes - Mullah Enaud, we thank you, the world thanks you for 
standing up and being heard.  I know and believe the world will 
soon see greater numbers of good Muslim's speaking up and 
denouncing Osama, al Qaeda and all such terror groups.  Soon it 
shall no longer be only the (falsely) assumed minority voices 
heard from the Muslim World, but the true majority who have been 
silenced for fear of reprisal.

Though statehood is far from likely, be certain the fine people 
of America will not this time fail your fine people as we did in 
the past.  The rebuilding of Afghanistan is a top priority for 
us and all the world's freedom loving peoples.

I look forward to the day I vacation in Afghanistan, a few short 
years from now.

John
E pluribus unum

From: EagleEye
To: NOAH
Subject: Creme Brew Lay - good stuff
Date: Sun Dec 2 00:45:38 2001

Message:
"EagleEye, you're a good man. Behind all that anger and 
attack, I am glad to be able to see some feeling. That's one 
of the biggies that separates you, as an attacker, and 
people like walter. I enjoy your humanity and though I 
sometimes am offended, I recover quickly and appreciate 
your content for the most part. Just wanna say, "go on with 
yo bad self!"

Hey Noah .... sorry to bum your high, and offend dude, but I go 
to the level needed to communicate with the pitiful fools.  Most 
are not deserved of compassion, sympathy, empathy or kindness.  
Its rather ironic, when they get from an American, a response in 
kind to their hate filled rhetoric and foolishness, they become 
taken aback and befuddled, and resort to out and out lies and 
slander with no factual basis by which to back up their bullshit.

Walter is just out to fuck with the mind.  He's trying to prove 
a point to gung ho Americans ... but its a secret.

Uk Vomit actually beleives in his shit, and thats what makes him 
a very sad sack of pathetic envious excriment. Despite all his 
rhetorical "save the innocent afghans, palastinians et al ..." 
he gives not one flying fuck for them - he only lives and 
breathes to scour the web to dig up anti-american sentiment 
where ever it lives to fullfill his beleif that USA is evil on 
enviro issues.  Funny that he has to resort to Arab/Muslim and 
Middle Eastern sources who communicate directly with ALLAH.  
ALLAH feeds them the news and they report it.

From: Noah
To: Mullah Enaud
Subject: That's funny
Date: Sun Dec 2 00:42:31 2001

Message:
Hey there, I enjoyed the website. Wouldn't that be a kicker to 
have to fly 7000 miles to go visit the aunts and uncles in 
Afghansas. Free trade baby! I do hope something good 
happens for Afghanistan soon though. The fund and gift 
shop are all real right? Are you really a Mullah? Thank you 
for your blessings. Hope to see you back here. I'll be looking 
for Afghansas on the new US maps in the near 
future...*grin*

From: Spy
To: John
Subject: Good to see you again(at least in print)
Date: Sun Dec 2 01:04:16 2001

Message:

From: John
To: Noah
Subject: I enjoy so much skimming through his posts for the chuckle of the day.
Date: Sun Dec 2 00:45:13 2001

Message:
I'm here, thanks for thinking of me.  I'm busy, busy, busy 
fullfilling the American Dream.  I check in every day though. I 
mostly find it unnecessary to make comment.  The war is 
progressing as I, and I believe most expected, requiring little 
commentary from me.  Walter is Walter.  It would be silly and 
unneeded for me to make comment.  He displays for full view his 
unbalanced opinions far better than I can highlight.  He's on my 
ignore list.  UK Spineless Voices is simply a silly knickered 
little chap looking for a schoolyard brawl.  He possess's so 
very little knowledge or understanding of seemingly everything.  
Poor little chap...  I enjoy so much skimming through his posts 
for the chuckle of the day.  He's like a comic strip completely 
void of anything real.

I enjoyed Mullah Enaud's site.  I mistakenly believed he was a 
true Muslim posting his beliefs up until I hit the disclaimer 
allatti2d told me to read.  I can be gullible.  See N. Carolina 
Gal, no rocket scientists here.

John
E...


From: Noah
To: Eagle
Subject: yup indeed
Date: Sun Dec 2 01:06:03 2001

Message:
I totally agree with you on the point of UK Voice and Walter. I 
kept giving the voice opportunities to explain himself in a 
rational, logical 2 way conversation. That failed, so I am 
actually starting to believe he is serious about the ignorant 
things he posts. Oh well. As for Walter, It is too annoying to 
have so many conflicting things come from that direction. 
So, I'll agree or disagree with anything serious he decides 
to post and let all the other mean-spirited thoughts fly by me.
Wish I could give you some of the Brulee, It's just now 
cooling and I gotta wait 'til tomorrow to caramelize it. 
You bring a lot of perspective to the board by fighting fire with 
fire. I'm not often offended, just when it came to the religious 
bashing. I think we're all learning that there are many 
Muslims who are on our side and will fight with us against 
the people who defile this country and their God. 
Time to go read some more news. See ya later.

From: John
To: ALL
Subject: We are years away from security, and maybe only hours from attack
Date: Sun Dec 2 01:16:17 2001

Message:
One final thought before I'm out for the night.  It's still 
early here.  DO NOT fall into a false sense of security.  Keep 
your eyes open and stay out of crowded places.  What happened in 
Jerusalem a few hours ago is the life these monsters want to 
bring here.  I still venture out no-where without my 
preparedness pack.  These monsters had and have greater plans, 
many of which I believe have been foiled by our justice 
department with all the regular arrests.  Every day, quietly, 
100's of potential terrorists are being swept up from our 
streets, never to be heard from again.  Many shall continue to 
evade arrest and will attempt a further attack of magnitude 
beyond our comprehension.  Stay alert.  Pick yourself up a mask, 
some sodium iodate, doxycyclene or other bacteria killing 
remedy, and 50 gallons of water per person, and plenty of canned 
food for the house.  We are years away from security, and maybe 
only hours from attack.

John
E...

From: Walter
To: John
Date: Sun Dec 2 01:48:51 2001

Message:
Pussy.

From: Everyman
To: allati2d, & whomever...
Subject: censorship
Date: Sun Dec 2 05:29:07 2001

Message:
I hate to say it, but there are indeed blackouts put on the 
press by the government; My father was a news director, and more 
than once had to squelch news that was considered 'not in the 
public interest' for people to know...sometimes because it would 
mean that someone would be held accountable, too many questions 
would be raised, or for fear of public reaction to the 
information.

From: Everyman
To: All
Subject: Anthrax
Date: Sun Dec 2 06:56:41 2001

Message:
No mail here yesterday, as a letter w/ white powder dusted the 
P.O.  Mail handlers all had to shower & the troops were brought 
in to analyze the situation, only to find someone had mailed 
some COCAINE; or tried to...

From: Mullah Enaud
To: All
Subject: Masa'el khair!
Date: Sun Dec 2 07:57:14 2001

Message:
Shokran jazilan. (Good evening! / Thank you very much.)

To: EagleEye, allatti2d, Spy, John, Noah  

We here in Afghansas truly appreciate all the kind comments 
about our state's humble site. 

Yes, the gift shop is real, as we are raising funds to support 
our cause.  Products are supplied by www.ParShot.com which we 
have recently added a link to in our "links" page. They were 
kind enough to help by allowing us to resale their products. Out 
prices are the same, but a portion of ours goes to the children 
of Afghanistan. They aso usually contribute portions of certain 
products to charity. I'm not sure which right now.

To: UK Taliban Agent

You are unlike the kind British people that I have met in my 
journeys into the West. Although there are a small minority of 
your dispicable kind in both the UK and US, most logical people 
can easily see the truth.  War is terrible, no doubt.  But war 
against the evils of terrorism is justified.  Those of you with 
anti-US sentiments in Britain seem to have a very short memory 
about a similar situation not to far in the distant past.

I imagine that you belong to the ranks of the "red diaper doper 
baby brigade" (I heard that on an radio station from the US or 
Britain and believe it fitting for leftists who do not 
appreciate what free enterprise can do for our countries). If we 
ever catch you smuggling poppy seeds back into Afghansas, you 
will be executed.

May Allah bless you all,

Mullah Enaud

From: Mullah Enaud
To: All
Subject: Shokran jazilan
Date: Sun Dec 2 08:35:41 2001

Message:
(Thank you very much)

I apologize to any names I may have left out in my 
earlier "Thank You" message.

To all a good night!

Mullah Enaud

From:
To:
Date: Sun Dec 2 08:50:22 2001

Message:
1. Be not wise in your own conceits. Recompense to no man 
evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If 
it is possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all 
men.   Romans 12:17-18 

From: Everyman
To: Mullah Enaud
Subject: web page
Date: Sun Dec 2 08:54:56 2001

Message:
I enjoyed your web page and fully intend to exercise my poetic 
license in contributing a verse for your song...Very well done!

From: Everyman
To: All
Subject: Letter
Date: Sun Dec 2 09:04:36 2001

Message:
I think this letter carries a very positive message.

http://www.chautauqua-inst.org/tragedy.html

From: Walter
To: Eagle Eye
Date: Sun Dec 2 09:14:57 2001

Message:
to "you" for the hardships your fellow countrymen and women have 
                  had to endure.  I am sorry for our errant bombs 
that killed 
                innocent afghans.   It appears that you realize 
that those were 
                     honest mistakes and that we were not trying 
to do that 
                                         intentionally.

                 I hope the Northern Alliance does not take 
advantage and harm 
                many people during their interim control.  I hope 
that food and 
                  aid gets to the people in your country that 
need it quickly.

                  And to "you" I apologize for the errant 
comments I have made 
                  about Muslims and Islam, you sir are the very 
first Muslim I 
                  have heard say thank you, or "any" decent word 
about America 
                                         since 
9/11/01.___________

Hell,the whole room shook as your knees hit the ground.I thought 
we were getting attacked again.

From: Walter
To: Mullah Enaud
Date: Sun Dec 2 09:29:57 2001

Message:
Eagle Eye:Funny that he has to resort to Arab/Muslim and 
                  Middle Eastern sources who communicate directly 
with ALLAH.  
                          ALLAH feeds them the news and they 
report it.

This is what he REALLY thinks about Muslims.

From: Radio Europe
To: UK? Voices
Subject: thanks for the "news"
Date: Sun Dec 2 09:06:22 2001

Message:
"27 November 2001 : US Military Walks Right Into Taliban Trap 
with Ground Invasion"

Just as some brave taliban prisoners of war staging a riot walked straight into some 500 
pound boms, and a spray of northern alliance bullets....  Radio Europe...

 

The Muslims are encouraged to increase in their supplications in the month of Ramadan, 
for the rout of the Crusader forces in Kandahar. 
Until now, many Muslims have, unfortunately, trusted Western 
media reports that the Mujahideen have been defeated. 
However, they should ask themselves where are all the thousands of Mujahideen who 
have not yet entered the battle arena on a large scale? 

Crusader, Crusader...  Isn't that "Osama-jargon"?


"And where are the thousands of Taliban soldiers who 
strategically withdrew from Kabul and surrounding areas?"

They're probably "stategically" hiding out, "bus-bombing"-style....  Radio Europe...



"The US soldiers on the ground will soon find out where they are with the Help of Allah."

Let us hope and pray they use more sophisticated tools...  
Radio Europe.... 


"Mujahideen forces in Kunduz yesterday Sunday decided to vacate 
the centre of Kunduz and move to surrounding mountainous areas. 
In areas around Kunduz, there were still heavy battles in 
progress as Mujahideen guerilla units ambushed Northern Alliance 
patrols."

The fuckers ran off... Bomb'em, HARD, Radio Europe... 



In an organised martyrdom operation on Sunday evening, 500 or so 
Taliban fighters imprisoned in Mazar-i-Sharif launched an 
operation against Alliance troops loyal to General Dostum and 
approximately 100 Special Forces troops that were assisting in 
interrogating the prisoners. Fighting continued into Monday 
night with heavy casualties on both sides. Approximately 30 US 
Special Forces troops were said to have been killed and dozens 
more injured. 

Lies, Radio Europe...



"US helicopters could be seen evacuating their dead 
and injured."

Both of them, Radio Europe...

 

Elsewhere in the Helmand province of Southern Afghanistan, three 
units of British SAS Special Forces were ambushed by Taliban 
forces. In the ensuing firefight, nine soldiers were killed, 
eight injured (four critically) and two soldiers were captured 
together with weapons, sophisticated night-vision devices and 
other tracking instruments.

Radio supposes the dead and injured were unarmed and had no night-vision...  Radio 
Europe...

From: Radio Europe
To: UK? Voices
Subject: thanks for the "news", continued
Date: Sun Dec 2 09:49:45 2001

Message:
Thank you very much, UK?Voices, for bringing us the "news" from propaganda sites, but 
we check these out twice daily allready...


For some realy interresting material, may we suggest E.S.D. posts?

From: Radio Europe
To: All
Subject: re-post
Date: Sun Dec 2 09:51:52 2001

Message:
In relation to the current, horrendous terrorist actions in Jerusalem...


From: Radio Europe 
To: Missin' 
Subject: Arafat, music 
Date: Thu Nov 29 17:14:23 2001 
Message:

Radio thinks that Yasser Arafat actually hasn't much to offer in peace-talks anymore.

In a way, that's a pity but we suspect that there are certain powers -and money- playing 
behind his back that pursue his very ideas, although in a  "less sophisticated" manner.

It is clear that he no longer is control and strings are being pulled by "less favorable 
foreign parties". And supported by possibly even less favorable regimes.

In the end, it may be these "parties" controlling the situation from a safe and comfortable 
distance that are responsible for the endless violence and misery that has been going on 
over there.

It is probably high time indeed to go after the origins of these problems, the very same 
groups and regimes that have been cultivating and financing terror for over 40 years.

The very same powers that are more or less directly behind the terror attacks on 
American targets, the very same powers that are linked mostly by Islamism and 
cumulated arab frustration.

None of this has to to with western wealth and "degeneration" as liberty is often referred 
to in these circles.

It is simply the worst case of doctrine since nazism, and it is a shame that much of is being 
brought into the world with a religion as its' political vehicle. One that will prove 
devastating in the end for this particular religions' followers, eventually.

For in the end, their religion will be understood only as an unjust political power that 
tolerates and even stimulates terror.

As some of these groups and their financial channels are being dismantled the vigor of 
the so called "holy war" will become evident. So will its' sources -and- resources.
We suspect the outcome to be even more alarming as we can immagine today.

We also think Israel is merely scratching the surface and occasionally hits a bit deeper in 
their efforts against terrorism and has been very carefully until today, because the number 
one on the agenda of the above mentioned groups is its' very destruction.


from Europe, Radio Europe....








From:
To:
Date: Sun Dec 2 10:02:28 2001

Message:
"Liberty Enlightening The World"
 Thou warden of the western gate, above Manhatten Bay, 
The fogs of doubt that hid thy face are driven clean away: 
Thine eyes at last look far and clear, thou liftest high thy 
hand 
To spread the light of liberty world-wide for every land. 

No more thou dreamest of a peace reserved alone for thee, 
While friends are fighting for thy cause beyond the guardian 
sea: 
The battle that they wage is thine; thou fallest if they fall; 
The swollen flood of Prussian pride will sweep unchecked o'er 
all. 

O cruel is the conquer-lust in (bin Laden's) brains; 
The paths they plot to gain their goal are dark with shameful 
stains: 
No faith they keep, no law revere, no god but naked Might; -- 
They are the foemen of mankind. Up, Liberty, and smite! 

Britain, and France, and Italy, and Russia newly born, 
Have waited for thee in the night. Oh, come as comes the morn. 
Serene and strong and full of faith, America, arise, 
With steady hope and mighty help to join th brave Allies. 

O dearest country of my heart, home of the high desire, 
Make clean thy soul for sacrifice on Freedom's altar-fire: 
For thou must suffer, thou must fight, until the warlords cease, 
And all the peoples lift their heads in liberty and peace. 
  
 Henry van Dyke
April 10, 1917  


From:
To:
Date: Sun Dec 2 10:10:06 2001

Message:
http://cnn.countrywatch.com/files/001/cnn_wire.asp?
vCOUNTRY=001&UID=638320

From: Walter
To: U.K.Voices
Subject: Britney Spears
Date: Sun Dec 2 09:52:19 2001

Message:
allatti2d/Britney Spears:Some Christians believe that God wants 
all 
                  non-Christians to suffer and perish.  Who are 
we to know the 
                mind of God (or Allah)?  I say that people who 
believe this way 
                are not true to their God, that they are 
representing Allah/God 
                  in a most distasteful way and completely 
misrepresenting Him.

                 I am sad for these people, as it appears they 
will never know 
                                    the pleasures of heaven._____

 First she says"Who are we to know the mind of God/Allah?
Then she says "They will never know the pleasures of heaven."
I guess she thinks she has a direct line.
I think I see her now comin down the mountain with some tablets 
she found!
 I wonder why she hasn't healed her friends,or their children?

From:
To:
Subject: *cry* for the poooooooor innocent
Date: Sat Dec 1 08:33:29 2001

Message:
people are not innocent.  not you, i, or some jah-wahs playing 
in a sand dune.  the whining liberal call has gone on far too 
long in this country..  its time to kick and kill some ass..  
we have the weapons, the people, and the money..   

and the only good arab is a dead arab...

From: EagleEye
To: Walter
Subject: Falling on ......
Date: Sun Dec 2 11:14:05 2001

Message:
"Hell,the whole room shook as your knees hit the ground.I 
thought we were getting attacked again."

Ha! ... yeah but I was aiming for assrashf's sword ... missed.

From: Mullah Enaud
To: Everyman
Subject: Looking forward to your verse.
Date: Sun Dec 2 11:37:10 2001

Message:
Everyman,
We await your submission to our song contest.

May you experience many blessings sooner than later,
Mullah Enaud

From: Mullah EagleEye bin Khalafornication
To: Palastinians
Subject: Merry Christmas from the USA
Date: Sun Dec 2 11:58:48 2001

Message:
May Santa bring Isreal even more :

Helicopters, Missiles, Tanks, Morters, Fighter Jets, and Arafats 
head on a platter.

Ho Ho Ho Ho........ Merry Christmas.

From: allatti2d
To:
Date: Sun Dec 2 11:59:08 2001

Message:
Mullah, I also plan to submit a verse when I have the time. 
(Everyman will probably do a better job, though!)  I really did 
enjoy your site, and passed it on to many friends.  Do you live 
in the U.S.?  You speak like the American Muslims I know 
(respectfully and honorably).

Walter, thanks for your observations.  I don't have a direct 
line, but my mother does.  Sometimes, in times of trouble, I'll 
call her and ask her to pick up the Bat-Phone to God.  Kinda 
like the pope, she doesn't need to go up the chain of command to 
be heard! :)  I was saying that these people won't go to heaven 
based on the pervasive message in the Christian bible (and what 
I know of the Koran, though it's not much) and most other 
religions I know of that say that killing is a damnable 
offense.  I don't know of any religion that says we are not all 
creations of God, so to kill each other is killing God's 
children, His own.  There is no logic in the extremists' 
positions, at least from a religious aspect.

To Everyone Else:  I saw a couple of shows late last night (when 
I should have been in bed) on MSNBC... um, could have been CNN; 
I was switching between channels.  One was about the U.S. 
Rangers who perished in Somalia in 1993 and the survivors of 
that unit who had words of wisdom for the current situation, and 
the other was about The Mind of a Suicide Bomber.  Did anyone 
else here see those shows?  Very interesting, very enlightening.

The Jihad suicide bombers are scouted and recruited.  There were 
interviews with some who were caught early or whose bombs didn't 
go off when they pushed the button and who were in prison.  They 
were told that if they did a suicide mission (I think they're 
called Jahid, the ones who martyr themselves), they would be 
rewarded greatly in a higher level of heaven, with the prophets, 
and all their family and friends would be assured a spot in 
heaven as well.  They are vigorously trained (brainwashed?) in 
their task and set to be honored after their death, and there is 
a ceremony afterward celebrating their martyrdom, parades on the 
streets, etc.  What a way to encourage this horrible act!

There was a family interviewed, the family of a Jahid who 
(almost?) succeeded in blowing himself and others up.  None of 
them knew that this person was going to do this, and they were 
all appalled and angry.  One person (I think it was the Jahid's 
brother) was very angry and near tears, and said, "They recruit 
and tell them they will be rewarded in heaven, that Allah will 
bless them more, but why don't they send their own sons to kill 
themselves for Allah?  Why do they send others and not their own 
sons?  They might feel differently if they sent their own sons 
to be Jahid." (I'm paraphrasing this quote; this is mostly what 
he said that I remember.)

This is a good point, one to ask extremists.  Why not send your 
own sons, or go yourself, if you believe it will secure a place 
in heaven for all of your family and all of your friends and 
you'll get 72 virgin wives (guess the number goes up for the 
Jahid)?  These recruiters must not believe what they preach.

From: Radio europe
To: Waldo
Subject: healing
Date: Sun Dec 2 12:23:29 2001

Message:
Weren't you the prick nagging about blasphemy, good and bad and shit?

We call ourselves happy not to believe, 
but boy, do we pity you for the god you believe in...  
The image you have of him...

This god of yours can be but one of evil and darkness and seems ever so well 
presented by you...

The picture you paint of him, your "holy" case gets clearer by the day for us, 
and darker for the ones suffering.

Thank you, for enlightening us on your support of his dark mission.

May all the scum and trash fighting and supporting him be gathered with him soon, 
by all means...    
In Afghanistan, Irak, Palestine, Chechnia, Kashmir, Phillipines, Indonesia or wherever...

We'll take care of things down here, AND keep the lights on...



Have a nice day, counting down....


from Europe, Radio Europe.









From: Justice USA
To: Everyone
Subject: SLOPPY WAR?
Date: Sun Dec 2 13:00:29 2001

Message:
I dont like the fact that the taliban has now infiltrated the 
Northern Alliance population and snuck into the boarders, etc.  
This is so fucking dangerous.  I mean, first of all, like I 
posted before, I DO NOT trust the northern alliance, of COURSE 
they are cooperating now because they dont want to get killed, 
but once we build these fuckers up and clothe, feed and medicate 
them, they will get right back on their feet and guess what we 
will get for gratitude, another couple of thousands Americans 
killed in the USA.  I am so fucking tired of all 
this "politically correct" bullshit about  how we have to handle 
this war in a DIPLOMATIC way.  The taliban blending in with the 
regular population is downright dangerous.  I want this war to 
kill off all the fuckers like everyone else, but some aspects of 
it seem sloppy to me.   

From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: SundayEdition
Date: Sun Dec 2 13:13:13 2001

Message:
Ishmael:

Ishmael, from the Hebrew word meaning God hears, was 
the son of Abraham and Hagar, the Egyptian maid of his 
wife Sarah. When Sarah had found herself not having 
children, she arranged to have a child with Abraham by 
Hagar acting as a surrogate mother (Genesis 16:1-4), even 
though God had specifically stated that a child would be 
born to Sarah in due time (see Isaac). The result was bitter 
conflict between Ishmael and Isaac, and their descendants, 
that has gone on right to the present day.

Ishmael was born at Mamre, when Abraham was 86, 11 
years after Abraham's arrival in what would become the land 
of Israel (Genesis 16:3). He grew up to be a man of the 
desert wilderness, with a wild and hostile attitude toward 
people, exactly as God described him to his mother before 
he was born:


"Behold, you are with child, and shall bear a son; you shall 
call his name Ishmael; because The Lord has given heed to 
your affliction. He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand 
against every man and every man's hand against him; and 
he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen." (Genesis 
16:11-12 RSV).

When a feast was held to celebrate the weaning of Isaac, 
who was born 13 years later, Ishmael caused trouble by 
insulting and mocking his little brother (Genesis 21:8-9). 
After Sarah, who by then had come to dislike both Hagar 
and Ishmael, saw what he was doing, she said to Abraham 
"Cast out this slave woman with her son; for the son of this 
slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac." (Genesis 
21:10 RSV)

Abraham at first resisted Sarah's demand - despite 
Ishmael's difficult personality, Abraham loved him and did 
not want to see him go. God however settled the matter:


"But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of 
the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah 
says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your 
descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son 
of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." 
(Genesis 21:12-13 RSV)

Hagar and Ishmael were sent away, but they were not 
abandoned. God appeared and spoke to Hagar, assuring 
her that He would watch over them and see them prosper 
(Genesis 21:17-19). "And God was with the lad, and he 
grew up; he lived in the wilderness, and became an expert 
with the bow. He lived in the wilderness of Paran; and his 
mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt" (Genesis 
21:20-21 RSV).

Isaac and Ishmael apparently did not meet again until 
Abraham died: "Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in 
the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of 
Zohar the Hittite, east of Mamre, the field which Abraham 
purchased from the Hittites. There Abraham was buried, 
with Sarah his wife" (Genesis 25:9-10 RSV). The place 
today is known as the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron, 
where the conflict for control of it still rages between the 
descendants of Isaac and Ishmael.

Ishmael lived 137 years (Genesis 25:17). He had 12 sons, 
who became the founders of Ishmaelite tribes that spread 
from Egypt to what is today Iraq. Many of the modern-day 
Arab peoples correctly recognize that they are the 
descendants of Ishmael, while the Jews, and the rest of the 
Israelites, are descendants of Isaac - but all are descended 
from Abraham.

========================
related scripture: Galatians 4:21-31
========================

Galatians 4:21-31

4:21"Tell me, ye that desire to be under law, do ye not hear 
the law?" 
4:22"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by 
a bondmaid, the other by a free-woman." 
4:23"But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the 
flesh, but he of the free-woman was by promise."
4:24"Which things are an allegory: for these are the two 
covenants; the one from the mount Si'-nai, which gendereth 
to bondage, which is A'gar."
4:25"For this A'gar is mount Si'nai in Arabia,and answereth 
to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her 
childern."
4:26"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the 
mother of us all."
4:27"For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; 
break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate 
hath many more childeren than she which hath an 
husband."
4:28"Now we, brethren, as Issac was, are the childeren of 
promise."
4:29"But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted 
him that was born after the Spirit,
even so it is now."
4:30"Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the 
bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman 
shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."
4:31"So then, brethren, we are not childeren of the 
bondwoman, but of the free."


From: the E.S.D.
To:
Subject: SupplementToPreviousArticle
Date: Sun Dec 2 13:33:03 2001

Message:
ref:Genesis21:10

From: John
To: Radio Europe et al
Subject: The suicide bombing may appear senseless, but it fits well within the greater World Jihad plan being perpetrated by this terror leadership
Date: Sun Dec 2 12:54:56 2001

Message:
Radio E,  Those pulling the strings of the Islamic Jihad, and 
the Hammas (who took responsibility for Saturdays bombings) as 
you correctly refer to as: not Arafat, has, as their agenda, not 
the cause of taking back occupied lands, or the ultimate goal of 
total Jew annihilation.  These are but now the martyr's and Arab 
populous cause, not the financiers.  As in the past, the strings 
ARE pulled to force the hand of the Israeli's.  But now more 
importantly, to force the hand of the Americans, in an attempt 
to force the American's to act outside their plan of attack, to 
accelerate response.  The terror leaderships goal being to fully 
align America and Israeli response.  Only then can this truly be 
the World Jihad they pursue.  It is no coincidence the terror 
leadership chose a time for such a wide action, when the Israeli 
President is to meet with the American President on American 
soil.  It will not work.  Americans have not only the greatest 
might, but the greatest minds.  America and the coalition will 
accellerate action, but will act unilaterally with but Israeli 
quiet support.  Israel will act to appease its citizenry in a 
manner I cannot, nor any predict.  The suicide bombing may 
appear senseless, but it fits well within the greater World 
Jihad plan being perpetrated by this terror leadership. 
     
John G  (c) MMI 
E pluribus unum

From: American Tax Payers
To: Collections Dept...
Subject: Bill Overdue... Reimbursement Required
Date: Sun Dec 2 13:47:25 2001

Message:
An open opinion letter to the people who owe money to the USA.

The USA tax payers would like reimbursed for the $98 Billion 
given to Israel.  (Net 30 days please)
Make check payable to 'USA' and mail to G.W. Bush...

Tax payers are tired of working for the armies of mideast 
nations.  They don't fight well and can never win, so we 
want all our money back, quickly please!

Also, the USA would like reimbursed for the Twin Towers,
and other buildings too,
destroyed because of this Arab / Israel conflict, 
Started by the English Government:

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/balfour.html

"Foreign Office, 2 November 1917 
"Dear Lord Rothschild, 
I have much pleasure in conveying to you on behalf of His 
Majesty's Government the following declaration of sympathy with 
Jewish Zionist aspirations, which has been submitted to and 
approved by the Cabinet: 
'His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in 
Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use 
their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this 
object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done 
which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing 
non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political 
status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.' 
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the 
knowledge of the Zionist Federation. 
Yours sincerely, 
Arthur James Balfour"
Source: The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem, 1917-
1988. United Nations New York 1990

The U.N. Remembers that England started this conflict,
by forcing Hebrews to move into Palestinian lands...
and it really hasn't gone very well for any body in 
any political party or religious group.

So it would be very nice indeed 
if the Crown would pay the bill in full, thank you.

Please Make Check Payable to :  New York City
Amount:  $ 20 Billion Dollars
And mail it directly to the mayor of NYC.

Of course, an exact amount is difficult to measure,
so the USA has rounded up to the nearest Billion...

Israel and England owe the USA money and the USA tax payers 
look forward to being reimbursed for the decades of 
war and destruction...

American Tax payers everywhere 
would like to thank England and Israel in advance
for paying their bills promptly and in full.

Thank you.


Next Billing Cycle:
To:    Saudi Arabia  
Bill:  Cleanup of Bin Laden & Crew: 
$100 Billion !!!

From: John
To: Justice USA
Subject: The taste of freedom numbs past hate and drives the mind to pursue new ideas.
Date: Sun Dec 2 14:02:52 2001

Message:
It is education, rebuilding, and most importantly, FREEDOM we 
bring to all Afghans, the Northern Alliance, and the Afghan 
Taliban.  The Taliban joining the ranks of the Northern Alliance 
are Afghans, not the foreign invader Taliban.  They will not 
turn on us.  They will soon have a much greater a taste of 
freedom.  Give the Alliance (some) credit.  The same credit 
offered the Russians after the fall of the Soviet Union.  The 
taste of freedom numbs past hate and drives the mind to pursue 
new ideas.


John
E...

From: Walter
To: Justice USA
Date: Sun Dec 2 13:44:17 2001

Message:
You probably don't care to hear my opinion,but oh well.
The situation looks sloppy because it is sloppy.We started out on 
a mission to get the people responsible who bombed our 
country,and turned it into"Let's Save Afganistan".Lets not.
 The "prison riot"happened because it wasn't a prison,it was a 
large mud hut.If you don't have anywhere to put your 
prisoners,you have a choice:let them go,or kill them.
 If someone throws a brick through my window,it doen't make me 
the good guy,and him the "evil one"It makes me "the extremely 
pissed-off guy"and him"the guy who's gonna get a beating".
 Things will get much less sloppy when we get our shit straight 
and realize the reason we're there:to kill the people who 
attacked us,and the people who harbor them.When that's 
accomplished in Afganistan,we move on to the next place.We can 
always come back later to plant rosegardens.
 

From: Scheduler
To: Everybody, UK, Walter, spy, ESD, etc
Subject: Is it DONE yet ? ? ?
Date: Sun Dec 2 14:31:15 2001

Message:
Do you think the USA will get the war done before Christmas?



It would be nice if they could all come home for the holidays...




From: Walter
To: Scheduler
Date: Sun Dec 2 14:36:53 2001

Message:
Have you ever watched TV?Have you ever seen a newspaper?Drag 
your silly ass away from your Playstaion long enough to get a 
glimpse of what's going on in the real world.

From: Walter
To:
Subject: I stand corrected
Date: Sun Dec 2 14:41:41 2001

Message:
Playstation2

From: John
To: Scheduler
Date: Sun Dec 2 14:41:21 2001

Message:
Have you just turned on the television or read a paper for the 
first time since 9/11?  Huh?  XMAS?  How bout Xmas 2005?

From: theE.S.D.
To: Scheduler
Subject: re: Is it DONE yet ? ? ?
Date: Sun Dec 2 14:40:59 2001

Message:
No

From: John
To:
Date: Sun Dec 2 14:45:48 2001

Message:
AHHHHHHH.   I'm thinking like Walter.  Someone please get me 
some thorazine.  QUICKLY!!!


John
E...

From: Walter
To: John
Date: Sun Dec 2 14:58:11 2001

Message:
It was within SECONDS John!LOL!!!!!! You can't even say it was a 
minute later!!!! 

From: om/cf
To: all
Subject: eye on the prize
Date: Sun Dec 2 14:33:24 2001

Message:
John, you are right on the money about current events, this
provocation is no coincidence. The terrorists want to build a 
Islam against the world attitude. U.S. will keep to our own
task at hand and that is still plenty. Isreal has always taken 
care of its own. Arafat has his "police" running around snatching
up terrorists left and right to save his ass right now. But the
problem I see is Palistinians, terrorists or not, dont listen
to a thing Arafat says. He is a relic trying to hold on. My own
belief is within a week Isreal will dish out a well deserved
spanking heard around the world.
 A scary thought for me, about the taliboomers blending in with
all the rest, now that they are not so concentrated and obviously
shooting at their enemy, how do you pick out the enemy. Viet Cong
tactics? Small children thanking soldiers with grenades in the
name of Allah? Lets finish the job of rounding up Assmama & boys
and not loiter about! A healthy dose of freedom call us in the
morning.

Yasser this your life:

Let s remember who Yasser Arafat is: He s the cold-blooded 
killer of U.S. diplomats - a crime for which he has escaped 
justice for 28 years. He s the architect of the Marine barracks 
bombing in Lebanon. He s the author of the Munich Olympics 
massacre. He s the brains behind the Achille Lauro hijacking at 
sea. He s the inspiration of the Lod Airport shootings. He s the 
mastermind of countless foreign assassinations and murders of 
dissidents among his own ranks. He s even the inventor of the 
politically motivated airline hijacking. If he gets his own 
state it will only be due to his unrelenting campaign of 
violence directed at Israel and America. By that prescription, 
should Osama bin Laden survive the next 30 years, we ll need to 
create a state for him, too. Maybe it will be Afghanistan. Who 
knows? 


From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: HeadLineNews
Date: Sun Dec 2 15:21:47 2001

Message:
12/02/2001 : "Iraq Rejects Ambassador Allegations" 

Iraq rejected claims that its outgoing ambassador to Turkey 
had met with Osama bin Laden, labeling such reports as 
``American-Zionist propaganda'' against Arab and Islamic 
countries. 
The United States has alleged that Farouk Hijazi met with 
bin Laden, America's prime suspect in the Sept. 11 terrorist 
attacks, in 1998 in Kandahar, southeastern Afghanistan, 
where bin Laden had training camps. 
``During the dates mentioned in the accusations, Hijazi was 
serving in Turkey and the Turkish government is aware of 
this fact,'' an unidentified Iraqi Foreign Ministry spokesman 
said in a statement obtained by The Associated Press on 
Saturday. 
As Hijazi left Ankara for Baghdad on Friday, he told reporters 
that ``neither in Turkey, nor outside do we have such a 
relationship,'' adding that he was returning to Iraq ``because 
my mission has ended.'' 
The Iraqi spokesman said Hijazi, who was posted to Ankara 
three years ago, had ended his term two months earlier and 
had been recalled to Baghdad for ``another diplomatic 
mission.'' 
Hijazi's alleged meeting with bin Laden is the second 
suspected link between Iraqi intelligence and those 
implicated in the Sept. 11 attacks. Mohamed Atta, believed 
to be one of the hijackers of a plane that slammed into the 
World Trade Center, is said to have met in April with an Iraqi 
intelligence agent in the Czech capital Prague. 
Hijazi worked for the Iraqi National Insurance Company until 
1970, a former company colleague said on condition of 
anonymity. Hijazi was widely believed to have then joined 
Iraqi intelligence, the colleague said. 

By SAMEER N. YACOUB, Associated Press Writer 

Source:BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) 
===============================

12/02/2001 : "Syria, Iraq call again on Turkey to resume 
negotiations on water" 

Syria and Iraq have called on Turkey to return to negotiations 
over the allocation of water from the Euphrates and Tigris 
rivers - talks broken off nine years ago. 
The request came in a joint statement issued by Syrian 
Irrigation Minister Taha al-Atrash and his Iraqi counterpart 
Rasul Abdel Hussein on Thursday night at the end of 
several days of talks in the Syrian capital. 
There was no immediate response from Turkey, which has 
long been at loggerheads with Syria and Iraq over water. 
The Euphrates and Tigris have their sources in eastern 
Turkey. The Euphrates flows through Syria to Iraq. The Tigris 
flows along the northeastern border of Syria into Iraq. 
Turkey reduced the flow of water to Syria by two-thirds in 
2000 owing to a severe drought. A 1987 agreement requires 
Turkey to release to Syria 500 cubic meters (17,500 cubic 
feet) of Euphrates water per second from its Ataturk Dam. 
In their statement, al-Atrash and Hussein said the sharing 
of water "should be a peace bridge among the peoples of 
the three countries." 
"To achieve that, the two sides (Syria and Iraq) renew their 
joint call to the Turkish minister (of irrigation) to return to the 
tripartite talks to come up with a fair and reasonable 
distribution of the Euphrates and Tigris water." 
Negotiations among the three states have not taken place 
since 1992. 
For a second consecutive year, Turkey is facing a severe 
water shortage owing to a hot and dry summer. Its water 
authorities have urged the Turkish Foreign Ministry to 
update the 1987 agreement with Syria to add a drought 
clause. 
Turkish officials have said that in case of drought, Syria 
should reduce the flow of the Euphrates water to Iraq rather 
than demand more water from Turkey. 
Syria is not likely to agree to such a move. It has already 
protested Turkey's construction of dams along the 
Euphrates which enable the Ankara government to reduce 
the flow of water to northern Syria. 
Syria allegedly harbored Turkish Kurd insurgents in the 
1980s and 1990s in what was thought to be a means of 
exerting pressure on Turkey over the water dispute. 

Damascus - The Associated Press 

===============================





From: John
To: om/cf
Subject: ...They, the terror leadership could care less about the Palestinians...
Date: Sun Dec 2 15:23:12 2001

Message:
We (the United States) may state publically that we are for a 
Palestinian state.  But don't for one iota believe it.  
Americans resolved decades ago, NOT to give in to kidnappers, 
hijackers or terrorists.  Creating such a Palestinian state 
would be meeting their demands.  It ain't gonna happen during 
this Bush tenure.  We are at war.  Like it or not the 
Israeli/Palestinian conflict is this war.  You don't win a war 
by making concessions like granting terrorists a country.  
Besides, that's not what they want anyway.  They, the terror 
leadership, could care less about the Palestinian's.  They are 
but a tool.

John
E...

From: Radio Europe
To: all
Subject: good afternoon, from Europe...
Date: Sun Dec 2 15:14:40 2001

Message:
John: 
The fears, the thoughts that brought us here in the first place...

We couldn't have laid them out more clearly as you just did...


American Taxpayers:
We are actually experiencing nausea out here at the idea that some muslim-organisations 
have been receiving funding from our sourly made tax-money, while preaching "holy 
war" AND the superiority of Islam AND degeneration of the west simultaneously.
How's that for a "bitter dollar"?

Radio really couldn't agree more with you, but don't also forget to invoice: 
Pakistan, Tadzikistan (we know they can afford it), Iraq (oh, and don't forget to put in the 
cost of nine years of air-surveilance AND the cost of medical assistance -not to mention 
the grief- of those that came out of the Gulf with "symptoms"...

p.s. some compensation may be arrranged with he UN on American overdue 
"membership fees"


Scheduler: 
It could still be done weeks before hat, but getting nuclear just ahead of Christmas 
seems, well, you know...  
Besides, too many good folk landed there by now...
But maybe just the cave-complex...  
Tactical warheads, of course, nothing too big, but big enough for "sufficient penetration".


hi Justice, 
We actually share your concern, we trust absolutely no-one out there, the interest are too 
mixed-up...
Just think of the Taliban, that have been fighting over in Kashmir against India, with 
Pakistan fully aware and agreeing... 
Go figure, who's who anymore...

the E.S.D.: Brilliant...



from Europe, 'twas Radio Europe....................................(senior Editor...)

From: om/cf
To: John
Subject: say what?
Date: Sun Dec 2 15:38:15 2001

Message:
Where in my post did I say I was all for a Palistinian state or
making concessions to terrorists? That second part was taken
from an Isreali site and Im sure it was not meant as positive
for Palistine by any means.

From: an Italian guy
To: all Muslims here (especially Walter and U.K.Voices)
Date: Sun Dec 2 16:58:21 2001

Message:
Is anybody of you named "Ken"?

From: EagleEye
To: theESD
Subject: Ahhh the memories......
Date: Sun Dec 2 16:28:54 2001

Message:
"Ishmael was born at Mamre, when Abraham was 86, 11 
years after Abraham's arrival in what would become the land 
of Israel (Genesis 16:3). He grew up to be a man of the 
desert wilderness, with a wild and hostile attitude toward 
people, exactly as God described him to his mother before 
he was born:"

Funny ... you dont hear too much about that in the Koran :-) ?  
I guess thats why they continually refer to it as the "good 
book."  Sometimes its damn good at revelations, this one is NO 
Exception.  

But the following is just absolutely PRICELESS ......


"Behold, you are with child, and shall bear a son; you shall 
call his name Ishmael; because The Lord has given heed to 
your affliction. He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand 
against every man and every man's hand against him; and 
he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen." (Genesis 
16:11-12 RSV).

"affliction" ..... spot on ....a WILD ASS of a MAN ... 
INDEED!!  .... I had forgotten just how prophetic this was.  The 
ARAB rebuttal to this is ...... silence perhaps?


From: EagleEye
To: Radio Europe and Am. Taxpayer
Subject: Billing Invoices and the U.N.
Date: Sun Dec 2 17:27:44 2001

Message:
Me thinks the Kyoto Treaty was nothing more than a means by 
which to extract those same said past due UN Membership fees, 
cleverly disguised as what it is ...... greenhouse GAAAAAS!

Here's a deal ...... we collect all our debt, and then we'll 
fork over the UN Membership fees?  And I think Palastine is a 
great place to start.


From: an Italian guy
To: EagleEye
Subject: Bobby Fisher
Date: Sun Dec 2 17:15:16 2001

Message:
I'm surprised. As a chess-player, I kept Fisher for kind of an 
idol... I had no idea he was such an anti-Semite and an 
anti-American. 
As it looks like, an extreme chess playing skill doesn't have 
much to do with objectivity.
Personally I will revise my opinion about him.

From: EagleEye
To: Italian Guy
Subject: Bobby "anit-semite/american" Fischer
Date: Sun Dec 2 17:34:43 2001

Message:
Yeah, that was a new one on me too, though those in the know as 
UK Voices likes to quip ..... have known this a while.

He may be a genious with Chess pieces, but a little dimented 
morally.  Im not totally aware of his past but as I recall, he 
has a history of border line mental illness... if memory serves.

Pretty sad, that the vast majority of the world will no longer 
remember his Chess Mastery legacy, but will now instead recall 
him from history as the deranged, bitter Jew Hating has-been, 
rotting away in a hotel room like Howard Hughes. As far as I'm 
concerned - deservedly so.

From: Ashraf
To: Noah...
Subject: ...
Date: Sun Dec 2 16:03:22 2001

Message:
Thanx for your kind words Bro.. Why I havent posted anything for 
quite sometime, is because I like reading what others have to 
say, rather than posting my own thoughts. This, I believe, is 
why we are here.. to look over to the other side.. I read almost 
everyword that's posted here, even those written by Evil-Eye.. I 
do realise that he has stopped cursing the Quran, Allah and 
Prophet Mohammed, may peace be upon him and Jesus, so I'll call 
him Eagle-Eye, for now.. I guess this is what you meant when you 
said that some of his statements offend you.. 
You are a very reasonable, good-hearted man.. and I am sure I 
would enjoy a conversation with you.. so gimmi a call, if u 
can.. The no. is +97150 5886884.. Thank you so much for your 
gestures, and hope you have a good day..

Peace..

From: Justice USA
To: Smokers on here
Subject: please restrict smoking
Date: Sun Dec 2 18:44:59 2001

Message:
Hi all, (slamming down some shrimps and french fries and pasta 
for contribute to the board)  here is all the stuff that 
everyone ordered from take out, now goddammit, I dont mind being 
the errand boy, but this fucken smoke is too much.  John, what 
the hell is wrong with you?  I thought that you were going to 
talk to the administror of the site to have special NO SMOKING 
DESSIGNATED areas on this message board.  A lot of you are chain 
smoking and all I ask, is that you place the ash trays a few 
feet away.  Have consideration for your fellow non smokers on 
here.  Sorry, to bitch about it again, but some of you people 
are not even smoking the damned cigarette and just letting the 
thing lie around.  GODDAMMIT TO HELL!  (gotta go and open a few 
windows now.......)  dammit to hell...... some people...... 

From: Ashraf
To: All
Subject: ...
Date: Sun Dec 2 18:44:22 2001

Message:
I've just obtained a translated English copy of the Holy Quran, 
for the sole purpose of responding to questions in relation 
thereto, from my friends on this board.. 

I'll do my best to answer your questions via word -to-word 
quotes from the Quran.. the sincere questions, I meant..

Peace..

From: Ashraf
To: Walter
Subject: ...
Date: Sun Dec 2 18:53:58 2001

Message:
In relation to the following:

To UK Citizen:
And about your question regarding Walter.. I have a very 
different opinion that many of you would possibly disagree to.. 
I believe that had the US Govt asked for volunteers to go over 
to Afghanistan, Walter would out-run many people on this board, 
to get to the front lines.. Walter, if I am wrong, please 
correct me..

This was my response to UK Citzen, when he asked me: What is 
your opinion about Walter.. The above was my response. No prior 
conversation prevailed his question..

Peace..

From: Ashraf
To: Eagle-Eye..
Subject: ...
Date: Sun Dec 2 18:59:32 2001

Message:
That's still not a phone number.. lol...!!!

What the heck.. at least you sound like you're very brave.. and 
after all, this is just a board in Cyber space.. right? so why 
do more than just blabber, and get into personal conflicts.. 
keep typ'n.. that, you believe, is good enough.. so be it..

Ps: Even if I were to go over to ur scooty-school.. should I ask 
for the tea-boy, with itchy, but shaky, fingers..? lol

C ya.. soon..

From: om/cf
To:
Date: Sun Dec 2 19:18:33 2001

Message:
Palestinian Students Glorify Terrorism with Exhibit in Nablus
 
Palestinian students at al-Najah University in the city of 
Nablus marked the anniversary of the outbreak of Palestinian 
violence with an exhibition entitled "The Sbarro Cafe 
Exhibition," celebrating the August 9, 2001 suicide bombing of 
the Sbarro pizza restaurant in Jerusalem, which killed 15 people 
and wounded dozens more. 
Palestinian students at Al Najah University walk under a replica 
of a Sbarro pizza restaurant sign, which reads "Kosher" in 
Hebrew.  
According to reports in the Israeli media and The Associated 
Press, the exhibition was comprised of a series of rooms. The 
Sbarro section of the exhibit was replete with body parts and 
pizza slices strewn across the room. The walls were painted red 
to represent spattered blood. 
Another part of the exhibit glorified the "martyrs" who carry 
out suicide operations shown with a Koran and Kalishnikov in 
hand. A third section depicted a Palestinian behind a rock 
placed in front of a mannequin of an ultra-Orthodox Jew, with a 
taped recording broadcast on the loudspeakers saying "O 
believer, there is a Jewish man behind me. Come and kill him." 

 
 

From: North Carolina Gal
To: Justice USA
Subject: smoke
Date: Sun Dec 2 19:19:55 2001

Message:
Sorry about the smoke...Being from North Carolina I tend to 
forget that there are some out there that don't smoke..I promise 
to move my ashtray away from the keyboard and try not to blow 
any smoke your way.......

From: North Caruline Gal
To: Justice USA
Date: Sun Dec 2 19:28:50 2001

Message:
P.S.   Thanks for the food!

From: Walter
To: Ashraf
Date: Sun Dec 2 19:06:35 2001

Message:
Yes,you were correct in your response.I'm not sure anymore if 
could outrun them,but I would be in line.I know that for telling 
you this,I will be attacked,and called a liar,but I have already 
served 4 years in the U.S.Army.I'm glad I'm not in there 
anymore,but I'm also glad I joined;you learn lessons in the 
military that you won't learn anywhere else,and you never forget 
them.
 The best commander we ever had told us"War is not fun;war is a 
dirty,filthy business,and you may do things in war that will give 
you nightmares for the rest of your lives".I will never forget 
that.
 A lot of us Americans are forgetting that we are sending 19/20 
year-old young men over to Afganistan to fight.Some will never 
return again.Some,on both sides,have never been in love,never had 
a child,never been far away from home before,and are scared to 
death.That upsets me the most.But I do believe we had to go over 
there.But the numbers of dead on either side doesn't bring any 
happiness to me.
 I won't go into the subject of terrorism and Sharon.You,and 
I,and a few others on the board know what this man really is,and 
the rest will not believe.Time. 

                         Peace
                        

From: Walter
To: FuckRadioEurope
Date: Sun Dec 2 20:04:42 2001

Message:
All this "we,us,our"bullshit proves that you suffer from 
delusions of grandeur.Nice copy and paste though.Thanks!

From: om/cf
To: all
Date: Sun Dec 2 20:29:36 2001

Message:
We'll fight terror our way, Sharon tells Bush
By Herb Keinon
Since PA Chairman Arafat has done nothing to prevent terrorism, 
Israel will fight terrorism itself, Sharon told Bush during 
their meeting yesterday.


              This spanking will leave a mark!

From: North carlina Gal
To: Walter
Date: Sun Dec 2 20:33:47 2001

Message:
I for one have not forgotten about 19/20 year-old  young men 
fighting for us over in Afganistan.....For my son happens to be 
one of them

From: Ashraf
To: Walter
Subject: ...
Date: Sun Dec 2 20:37:46 2001

Message:
What I dont understand, is how everyone else on this board 
doesnt see this.. I'm sure the more enlightened here, like John, 
Allatti2d, Noah.. probably did.. They probably saw right through 
all ur posts, but ste their priorities to first, nail ur butt to 
the wall, for all the things u said, but I have no doubt in my 
mind, that if I've figured out what ur all about, then they must 
have done so ages ago..

U.K. Citizen.. told ya.. ;)

Peace..

From: Ashraf
To: North carlina Gal
Subject: ...
Date: Sun Dec 2 20:45:02 2001

Message:
He will return safely to you, Insha'Allah, God-willingly.. You 
should be very proud of him, for his dedication to his belief in 
his cause..

Peace..

From: om/cf
To: Ashraf
Subject: your view
Date: Sun Dec 2 20:59:16 2001

Message:
While your here, whats your take on the current/ongoing
palastinian attacks on innocent people/ I know you dont
agree with such actions but whats the buzz on the streets
in Dubai?
 By the way if you look at back posts its easy to see how
American Walter is.

From: North Carolina Gal
To: Ashraf
Date: Sun Dec 2 21:07:03 2001

Message:
Thank You...

From: U.K.Citizen
To: North Carolina Gal
Subject: Your Post
Date: Sun Dec 2 20:57:23 2001

Message:
In light of your above post madam, I am indeed honoured to have 
been of, at least, some small comfort to you. I shall gladly 
wave my 'word' goodbye, to return to continue to provide more of 
the same, if I can.

Can I also give my best wishes to you, and extend those wishes 
for your son's safe return.

Hope to speak to you again, soon.

Yours, U.K.Citizen  

From: Backgrounder
To: Ashraf, om/cf and all others
Subject: Before it all was...
Date: Sun Dec 2 21:11:24 2001

Message:
Keep up on the story behind the news on:
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news_updates/newsupdatemain.html

Before Taliban, 
Before Sep. 11th
Before Israel
Before the U.N.
Before WWII and Hitler,
there were:
The Skull and Bones

The real background of Dubb-ya:
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1314.cfm

Title:  TEXAS GOVERNOR GEORGE W. BUSH IS ALSO A MEMBER OF THE 
ILLUMINIST SATANIC SECRET SOCIETY, SKULL & BONES!


NEWS BRIEF:  "Secret Ingredient", The Witness News , Curtis 
Dickinson, Editor, July, 1999.

"According to Robert Goldsborough of Washington Dateline , 
Governor George Bush has a 'secret ingredient which will help 
him in his bid to become America's next president -- membership 
in a society which is even more secretive than Freemasonry'. The 
society goes by the unofficial names of Skull and Bones and/or 
The Order, and its members are usually referred to 
as 'Bonesmen'."

"The Order was founded at Yale in 1833 and membership in it is a 
Bush family tradition.  Gov. Bush was inducted into Skull and 
Bones in 1968; his father, [President] George Herbert Walker 
Bush, was inducted in 1948; and his grandfather, Prescott S. 
Bush, who served as a U.S. Senator, was inducted in 1917."

What terrible news!  Being a member of the Skull and Bones means 
that you are purely Illuminist , since this Order traces 
directly back to the Bavaria Iluminist group of Adam Weishaupt.  
If you are unhappy with the Antichristian policies and attitudes 
of President Clinton, you will get no relief from a President 
George W. Bush; he will not roll back any of the advances to the 
New World Order that occurred under the leadership of President 
Clinton, and we would likely see many more advances in other 
areas.  Generally, when the Illuminati wants an advance in 
internal American society, they try to place a Democrat in 
power; but when they want an advance in Foreign Affairs, they 
try to place a Republican in power.  If George W. Bush has been 
picked to succeed President Clinton, it must mean that 
significant advances in international politics is planned.

SKULL AND BONES SECRET SOCIETY -- A QUICK STUDY

In past articles, we have stated that the New World Order could 
not have been realized had it not been for the intense 
activities of various secret societies throughout the world. We 
have mentioned one world-wide secret society, the Brotherhood Of 
Death Society, whose symbol is the skull with two crossed bones. 
 The German Brotherhood of Death Society is the Thule Society. 
Adolf Hitler joined this society in 1919, becoming an adept 
under the leadership of Dietrich Eckhart. Later, the Thule 
Society selected Hitler to be their leader of the New World 
Order, as Eckhart revealed on his deathbed, saying, "Follow 
Hitler; he will dance, but it is I who have called the tune. I 
have initiated him into the Secret Doctrine, opened his centers 
in vision, and given him the means to communicate with the 
powers." (Trevor Ravenscroft, The Spear Of Destiny, p. 91).

In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world 
had now entered into a New World Order. Shockingly, President 
Bush is an adept in the American Brotherhood of Death Society, 
the Yale Skull and Bones Society. As we stated earlier, Bush's 
New World Order is virtually identical with Hitler's; one key 
connecting point is their common membership in their respective 
Brotherhood of Death Societies (New Age author, Bill Cooper, 
Behold A Pale Horse, p. 81; plus Antony Sutton, Introduction To 
The Order, p.7). Skull and Bones' symbol is also a skull with 
two crossed bones, but with the mysterious number, '322' 
underneath.  

As we get started in our study, remember that all members of the 
American Skull and Bones are just as Satanic as was Adolf 
Hitler.  This premise is one that shocks most people to the 
core, because neither Former President Bush nor his son, Texas 
Governor George W. Bush, "look" like Adolf Hitler.  Remember 
Jesus' solemn warning concerning the deception of the End of the 
Age.  "Take heed that no man deceive you." [Matthew 24:4]  Jesus 
repeated this warning against unparalleled deception, "And many 
false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." [Matthew 
24:11].  Once more, a third time, Jesus warned, "For there shall 
arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great 
signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they 
shall deceive the very elect." [Matthew 24:24]  When God repeats 
something three times in Scripture, He is attaching the most 
significance to it possible.  

Here, God is telling us that, at the End of the Age, He is going 
to allow Satan's people to perpetrate the most successful 
deception in world history.  Are you one of those victims?  
Listen and heed.  

We are going to prove that the Skull and Bones membership of 
Former President George H.W. Bush and of his son, Texas Governor 
George W. Bush are identical to the Satanism of Adolf Hitler in 
the Thule Society.  Both of these secret societies are 
identical, practicing the most dark of Black Magick Satanic 
powers.

See The real background of Dubb-ya:
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1314.cfm


From: U.K.Citizen
To: Ashraf
Subject: Knowledge Eons after the event.
Date: Sun Dec 2 21:12:56 2001

Message:
Ashraf, I think you possibly might have missed the point 
slightly, again. By the time I posted you the post containing 
the subject matter "Nevermind", the identity issue as far as I 
was concerned, was already settled. "Nevermind", obviously did 
not go far enough in explaining that situation, but 
anyway....nevermind. 

From: om/cf
To: Backender
Subject: fuck you very much
Date: Sun Dec 2 21:28:33 2001

Message:
Checked out the site, but freak shows dont do it for me bud.
I get into that shit on halloween but thats enough for a year.

From: North Carolina Gal
To: U.K. Citizen
Date: Sun Dec 2 21:30:36 2001

Message:
You brought tears of joy to my eyes...Having you back has made a 
world of difference to me. If you only knew how your words have 
lifted my spirits.Welcome Back   

From: theE.S.D.
To: U.K.Citizen
Subject: WelcomeBack
Date: Sun Dec 2 21:33:12 2001

Message:
It is good to hear from you again.

From: U.K.Citizen
To: NC Gal, theE.S.D., om/cf and to all my friends
Subject: Its good to be back
Date: Sun Dec 2 21:41:28 2001

Message:
I'm back...keepin' a look out...and I'm walkin' perimenter....

From: Ashraf
To: U.K. Citizen, om/cf & Backgrounder
Subject: ...
Date: Sun Dec 2 21:23:34 2001

Message:
ok, nevermind ;)
Welcome back.. and this time.. stay for a while..
Think about what I said about Walter..? Had I been wrong about 
him, he wouldnt have hesitated in disagreeing, coz he's not out 
here to gain anyone's support, as u might have noticed, thus, he 
has nothing to lose.. Hope u get my point..  

om/cf:
I've lived here for 22 years, and havent come across 1 person 
who tolerates the Jewish acts of terrorism in Palestine, be him 
an Arab, Indian, Muslim or Christian.. no-one.. 
Palestinians are seen to be, by me as well, in a state of self-
defense.. They are retaliating to the acts of Sharon's Govt., 
and Sharon states that his people are acting in retaliation to 
the Palestinian stone-throwing "Terrorists".. He says that his 
soldiers, who r packed to the teeth, are being terroirised by 9 
and 10 year olds.. I dont believe him, but you do, and so do all 
the Americans, at least all the Americans on this board.. 
Regardless of what who says what, innocent civilians should 
never be involved nor targeted, and that goes for both sides.. 


Backgrounder:
Thanx for the post.. U got me confused at first.. I actually 
thought you were talking about the city of Dubai, in the UAE..

Peace..

From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: InTheNews
Date: Sun Dec 2 22:17:05 2001

Message:
==============================================
Date: 2001-12-02

Muslim-Christian Violence Continues in Indonesia

JAKARTA, Indonesia, DEC. 2, 2001 (Zenit.org).- Dozens of 
houses were set on fire and four soldiers were shot today in 
new fighting between Muslims and Christians on Sulawesi 
Island, witnesses and hospital officials said. 

The clashes mark a week of sectarian violence on the 
Indonesian island that has killed at least seven people and 
caused thousands to flee their homes, the Associated 
Press reported. 

Witnesses in the coastal town of Poso in central Sulawesi 
province reported hearing gunfire and explosions until 
dawn. A doctor at Poso s hospital said four soldiers were 
being treated for bullet wounds. 

Fighting between Muslim and Christian villagers in 
Sulawesi, about 1,000 miles northeast of Jakarta, has killed 
at least 1,000 people in the last two years. 

The recent violence has been blamed on the arrival of 
hundreds of fighters belonging to the Laskar Jihad, a 
paramilitary Muslim group accused of stoking a sectarian 
conflict in neighboring Molucca province. About 9,000 have 
died in the province since 1999.

=============================

Source: ZENIT News Services

http://zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=13467

=============================

From: U.K.Citizen
To: North Carolina Gal
Subject: Touched
Date: Sun Dec 2 22:03:11 2001

Message:
As Allatti2d kindly mentioned on my behalf, during my self 
imposed exile, I hope to hear much more from you! People such as 
you NC Gal, are far better placed than person's such as I, to 
give a true perspective on things, because you and those in your 
position are 'very much' at the sharp end of things, if I may 
put it that way. Your opinions and thoughts are of the very 
highest value. Feel free to contribute in any way you wish, as 
often as you wish, even if it's just to say "Hi" and I'll do the 
same, as I'm quite sure, many of us will. I am truly touched by 
your words madam. 
 
Once again, to you and your loved ones... my very best wishes.

U.K.Citizen

(P.S. Hope you can put up with my typing errors, I have a 
tendancy to rush my posts on occasion. There is of course no 'n' 
in perimeter!)  

From: SBD
To: all
Subject: Palestinians
Date: Sun Dec 2 22:32:01 2001

Message:
I say we just go ahead and declare war on the Palestinians and 
get it over with.  The Arabs are so quick to sympathize with 
their cause, but I don't see the Arabs doing squat for them.

It also occurred to me that the Arabs own 95% of the land (and 
oil) in the middle east, but they are still not satisfied with 
letting the Jews have a piece of land equal to the size of 
Virginia.


From: Beerfart American
To: Ashraf
Subject: Palestinian Terrorists
Date: Sun Dec 2 22:19:52 2001

Message:
Hey, I guess all that carnage yesterday was caused by a couple 
of nine year olds throwing stones.  Don't bullshit me.  What 
America and (NC Girl's son) is doing now is self defense.

Praise be USA

From: open mind/closed fist
To: Ashraf
Date: Sun Dec 2 22:28:45 2001

Message:
I asked about Palestinian terrorism, and you come back with
Jewish terrorism, interesting, ok. Let me ask new questions.
How is peace ever to be achieved with terrorists killing
innocent civilians? How can peace be achieved in talks with a,
has been, like Arafat? He cant control the young wannabes. Till
a year ago lasting peace in the region may have been close,
but not close enough.
 I asked your view on rock chucking once, and got a reply of
symbolism and all, but never did get a answer on why would
any sane, resonable parent in any part of the world let their
children throw rocks at men with guns, symbolic or not its just
plain stupid unless you want to sacrafice your child for the
cause. We are worlds apart here, no way would I let my child
in the path of danger, no matter what.
 Peace seems like a long lost word right now friend.

From: Noah
To: UK Citizen, Ashraf, Walter, Allatti2d, John, Backender, NC gal
Subject: lots...
Date: Sun Dec 2 22:35:15 2001

Message:
Hey UK! Good to see you back again! It's good to have 
someone on the perimeter, keeping an eye out for things. 
Not too much going on in Eastern PA, except fot the 
Army/Navy football game. It's weird to see them play a game 
at a time like this. Probably very good for them though. 
Anhow, good to see another nice guy back in town.

Ashraf, Thanks for writing to me. I hope I can get up the 
nerve to call. My wife would probably not like me to call a 
"stranger", not that we have not had our online introduction. 
I appreciate your understanding of Walter (the ever 
confusing). I figured he was just a disgruntled American. I 
sort of see where he's coming from though. It's just that all 
those other non-walter posts and possible walter posts 
confused the heck out of me. Oh well, everyone's got 
something in mind. You were right that I was offended by 
Eagle Eye's bashing of Muslims in general. I am offended 
by your comments about Jews in general too. Since not 
many people have made deroggatory comments about 
Christians yet, I guess I'll say in advance that that would 
offend me too. I don't usually get offended for long. I am very 
quick to forgive because I have been forgiven much. If I did 
any less, I would be hurting God deeply. I am sure that I 
would like to talk with you too, but I'll have to work up the 
extrovert in me. You're totally right in that I do not approve of 
any Israeli terrorists, but most Israeli's don't approve of them 
either. They just want to live in peace. Most Americans want 
to live in peace. I am praying that there will be peace soon - 
there are so many people getting hurt, but I suppose if we 
(people trying to live life) need to suffer in the short term so 
that many will not die in the future, then maybe this has to 
be. God is great and is able to provide a peaceful way out of 
this, it is up to all involved to choose that door. 

Walter - I see where you're coming from. I know that most of 
the people going to serve in Afghanistan (and in the armed 
forces in general) are even younger than I am. It's really hard 
to imagine, but it makes me proud to know there are so 
many brave "kids" out there. I will not call you a liar, even 
though you confuse me to death, because you deserve 
thanks for giving some of your time to defending America. 
Now you are afraid that our government is betraying the 
country you enlisted to protect. Perhaps they are, in a sense. 
I love the United States because of the people here, 
because I know of no other country with such a varied 
landscape, because I can worship as need to, because 
people are free to be themselves. Contrary to some 
Americans, I do not worship capitalism, but I respect others' 
right to worship capitalism - I simply make my living off of 
capitalism and enjoy my right to live free. I support this war, 
because I do not believe human beings are able to create a 
utopia where people will treat one another with love and 
respect. So, lacking that love and respect, I at least want 
people to live in safety and with freedom. 

Allatti2d - Thank you for your e-mail...I will write you 
eventually, but I admit I am terrible at correspondence. Did I 
ever ask if you were a psychologist by profession? You 
seem very in touch with the human mind. 

John, I know that you do not want a palestinian state and 
that we should not respond to terrorism by giving into their 
demands, but we're at the point where we have to see if 
giving up land will do anything at all. I am sure that it will not 
solve the problem, but I am not against a try. By not trying 
anything, humankind is stagnant and cold. By trying to give 
the palestinians some land, we might just accelerate the 
killing of Israelis by bringing the killers closer, but it might 
make them happy. You never know. People are an 
unpredictable entity. My two cents is that both parties need a 
good lesson in forgiveness, but that involves changing 
people at their very fabric. 

Backender - very interesting message. It seems a little raft 
with conspiracy, but I have hear about GW's membership in 
the society before. I admit that I do not trust the president, if 
only the look in his eyes when he talks about "evil ones". He 
claims to be a Christian, and perhaps he is, but I have never 
heard the man say that "Jesus is Lord". Maybe he is a 
deceiver with a hidden agenda, but aren't most politicians 
that way? I don't know, I am still happy with the way the 
country is dealing with terrorism, even If I don't know where I 
stand on the president. There is just too much possibility for 
crying "Conspiracy!!" here. I guess we'll see right? I know 
who is in charge of my future, so que sera, sera. 

NC gal. God bless you, I give you my prayers for your son 
serving our country. I am thankful for all the mothers and 
fathers who stand strong behind their children. Hopefully the 
end of conflict will not be long in coming. 

From: GOD
To: THE WORLD
Subject: WARNING!
Date: Sun Dec 2 23:52:07 2001

Message:
DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE!
YOU WON'T LIKE THE VISIT!
MY JUDGEMENT IS EVERLASTING!
GOT THE IDEA YET???

From: SBD
To: Ashraf
Subject: Terrorists & the Palestinians
Date: Sun Dec 2 23:58:30 2001

Message:
Ashraf,

You pose excellent questions.  I don't think there is any way we 
can negotiate for peace.  It has become obvious that the 
Palestinians do not want peace.

So I say we should give them war.

From: Walter
To: NC Gal
Date: Sun Dec 2 23:50:09 2001

Message:
I wish for you and your son the best.

From: North Carolina Gal
To: U.K. Citizen
Date: Mon Dec 3 00:25:00 2001

Message:
Allatti2d and  You gave me  both a reason and the strengh to   
speak up on this board...Your words have been such a comfort to 
me.  And  by the way i would of  never  known that there wasn't 
a n in  perimeter!  God be with You  best wishes

From: Walter
To: GOD
Date: Mon Dec 3 00:30:12 2001

Message:
Boy,that was really loud!It would be really neat if I could get 
my voice to have an echo like that!But I'm confused. In Genocide 
3:17 we read:In the year 712 after the uprising of the cows,the 
lord didst stop shouting,and began to speak in a 
clear,well-modulated tone.

From: Noah
To: "GOD" poster
Subject: annoying
Date: Mon Dec 3 00:36:26 2001

Message:
Hi, I just want to say that I find it very annoying and insulting 
when people decide to speak for God. We can't make God 
come down here, he's already done that once and it was to 
spare the world not to condemn it. Just because you're 
upset at the way things are doesn't mean that God would do 
what you would. That is exactly why God is God and you're 
not. Thank you.

From: North Carolina Gal
To: Walter
Date: Mon Dec 3 00:39:57 2001

Message:
Not sure how you do it....I get so mad at you but then you say 
something  like this...Thank You..Your Sweet

From: Walter
To: Noah
Date: Mon Dec 3 00:42:19 2001

Message:
You know,as much as I've battled with you guys,in a way it's 
been fun,and it would be amusing for us all to meet in a room 
somewhere.You'd know me right away,I'd be the one wearing all the 
protective gear.............LOL!!!

From: Walter
To: Ashraf
Date: Mon Dec 3 00:55:45 2001

Message:
After reading some of your last posts, I have decided that you 
are a prick.  I would just like to say, fuck you.  I think that 
you are a hypocrite and a liar.

From: Noah
To: Walter
Subject: yeah, it's been fun
Date: Mon Dec 3 00:52:01 2001

Message:
Hey, it has been fun. I think I need therapy, but it has been 
fun nonetheless. I still want to slap the guy who was posting 
as you because it really messed me up. don't worry, if we 
were to meet in a room, I wouldn't bring any weapons. A 
chat room is good for quick, stinging words. I haven't been 
to one in a while though. What state are you in by the way? 
most states in America are too big to find anyone in, so I 
wouldn't worry about posting it. I live in King of Prussia, PA 
(southeast). It can be a small world, I bet we'll bump into 
each other someday and never even know it. I think if we 
were ever to meet in a room someday, it would most likely 
be padded and windowless. 

They're coming to take me away, HAHA.

have a good night.

From: Walter
To: Noah
Date: Mon Dec 3 01:16:26 2001

Message:
Yes like the gutless one who used my name in the post right 
above yours.

From: Walter(the real one)
To: Ashraf
Date: Mon Dec 3 01:18:05 2001

Message:
I can only tell you,and hope that you will believe me.I've just 
read the post a few above where someone is using my name to post 
unkind words to you.Unkind words WILL NOT be coming from me to 
you for any reason,ever.You have always treated me decently,and I 
have much respect for you,and your words.Its sad that some people 
are cowards,and can only speak as someone else.

                      Peace

From: Everyone's GOD
To: Walter, Noah and the North Carolina Gal
Subject: Do you want that to go?
Date: Mon Dec 3 01:33:19 2001

Message:
At least Noah admidts there was a visit from GOD but does not 
make reference that there will be a second coming.  I will grant 
you that I might have stretched it a bit, by implying that your 
actions would lead to the second coming of Christ. But it will 
happen, in time.
Anyway, just wanted to let you three stooges know, you are 
really not quite as smart as you think you are...Sweet Dreams^

From: Walter
To: Everyone's GOD
Date: Mon Dec 3 02:05:13 2001

Message:
I said something to you,Noah said something to you,but NC Gal 
didn't say anything to you.Problems with counting to two?
 I'm not speaking for Noah,but I don't need You to quote the 
Bible to me.I know the Bible quite well thank you.
 YOU are the fucking moron that posted as God.
 Find yourself a streetcorner,and peddle your wares 
there,anointed one.

From: Everyman
To: U.K. Citizen
Subject: Welcome back!
Date: Mon Dec 3 05:08:38 2001

Message:
Hear, hear!

From: kuk
To: fitta
Date: Mon Dec 3 06:35:22 2001

Message:

From: Everyman
To: Mullah Enaud
Subject: Song
Date: Mon Dec 3 06:06:23 2001

Message:
I have to say that researching this song and coming up with a 
verse was very satisfying.  I hope that I can contribute more 
than one verse, because I am 'hearing' more than just one!

And to the rest of you, if you haven't visited www.afghansas.com 
yet, get over there!  

From: Everyone
To: Walter
Subject: Read the message
Date: Mon Dec 3 09:25:53 2001

Message:
You shitknob, go back and re-read what NC Gal wrote to you, butt 
head! Same thing as siding with you isn't it? So two does become 
three, or can't you count? Go peddle your ass on Noah and maybe 
NC Gal will wipe up your tears. You really are full of yourself, 
aren't you? Have a wonderful life. I'm out of here, better 
things to do than stay here wasting time.     E

From: Radio Europe
To: The Walter(s) below
Subject: multiple Walters
Date: Mon Dec 3 10:34:23 2001

Message:
From: Walter 
To: FuckRadioEurope 
Date: Sun Dec 2 20:04:42 2001 
Message:

All this "we,us,our"bullshit proves that you suffer from 
delusions of grandeur.Nice copy and paste though.Thanks!

Actually, Walter we are several people, unlike what you think you are...

pees!


from Europe, this was Radio Europe...


P.S Eagle, you have a deal...



From: GOD
To:
Subject: the above message
Date: Mon Dec 3 10:50:12 2001

Message:
IT'S TRUE, WALTER

From: Justice
To:
Subject: Middle East
Date: Mon Dec 3 10:46:26 2001

Message:
"Israel helicopter gunships on Monday fired at least nine 
missiles near Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat's 
headquarters, witnesses said".

The middle east wonders why we intervene all of the time.

Walter:  You have surprised me this past week.  When you are not 
acting like a total ass, you really have some good things to 
say.  I like the new Walter better.  Please keep up the good 
posts.

From: EagleEye
To: Walter
Subject: Some one play .......
Date: Mon Dec 3 11:45:14 2001

Message:
"Unkind words WILL NOT be coming from me to 
you for any reason,ever.You have always treated me decently,and 
I have much respect for you,and your words."

Jeeeez .... Im getting all misty over here ..... Get a tube a KY 
and a room already Yaaaaaaack!

From: EagleEye
To: Radio Europe
Subject: Done Deal
Date: Mon Dec 3 11:50:26 2001

Message:
Any idea what the past due bill at the UN is? 

From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: InTheNews
Date: Mon Dec 3 12:45:51 2001

Message:
12/01/2001: "German authorities investigate the relationship 
between Ziyad Al-Jarrah and Abu Nidhal" 

Washington-Al-Mutamar

According to recent German press reports, the authorities in 
that country are investigating possible links between one of 
the perpetrators of the September 11 attacks 
Lebanese-citizen Ziyad Samir Al-Jarrah (Born 1975) and the 
Fatah Revolutionary Command group also known as the 
faction of the infamous Palestinian terrorist, Abu Nidhal. The 
investigations are focusing on Assem Omar Al-Jarrah, who 
is the uncle of Samir Al-Jarrah, Ziyad s father. Assem 
Al-Jarrah had emigrated from Lebanon to the coastal East 
German town of Griefswald in 1982, and was subsequently 
recruited by the East German Intelligence Service, known as 
the Stasi, as an informer in 1985 and then became a 
channel between the Stasi and the Abu Nidhal group. After 
the collapse of the Eastern Bloc, Assem Al-Jarrah devoted 
himself to commerce and established two pharmaceutical 
and medical companies in the cities of Griefswald and 
Neubrandenberg.

A security source in the Iraqi National Congress stated that 
Ziyad Al-Jarrah, accompanied by his cousin Salim Al-Jarrah, 
left for Germany in 1996 for the purpose of study and stayed 
in the house of Assem Al-Jarrah for over a year and half 
while Ziyad Al-Jarrah continued to learn the German 
language in the University of Griefswald. Later on, Ziyad 
enrolled in the Applied Sciences University of Hamburg to 
study aeronautical engineering where he met what is now 
known as the  Hamburg terrorist cell  that included the 
Egyptian Muhammed Muhammed Al-Amir Awadh Seyyid Atta 
(33 years old and intermittently pursuing his studies at the 
Technical University of Hamburg since 1994, and he was 
known to disappear for long periods of time) and the Emirati 
Marwan Yousif Muhammed Rasheed Lakrib Al-Shehhi (23 
years old and a relative of Atta s through his Egyptian 
mother, and was studying the German language at the 
University of Bonn since 1997 and then moved to Hamburg 
where he lived with Atta) and their fugitive colleagues the 
Yemeni Ramzi Muhammed Abdullah Omar Bin Al-Shibh (29 
years old and was supposed to participate in the hijackings 
but failed to get a US visa) and the German of Moroccan 
descent Said Al-Bahaji (26 years old and had done his 
military service in the German Army and came to Hamburg 
to study electrical engineering and was known as Abu 
Omar) and the Moroccan  Zakariya Al-Sabbar  (24 years 
old), and their headquarters and residence was at 54 
Marienstrasse.

The same security source said that Assem Al-Jarrah had 
established his relationship with Fatah Revolutionary 
Command and its leader Sabri Khalil Al-Banna, also known 
as Abu Nidhal, when the latter was residing in the Libyan 
Republic, and Assem Al-Jarrah was receiving funds from 
Libyan Intelligence in return for reports about the nature of 
the relationship between Abu Nidhal and the Stasi, with the 
consent of the Germans. Assem Al-Jarrah sold his two 
companies two months before the Sept. 11 attacks in the 
United States and had told German authorities that he was 
leaving to retire in Lebanon, but German authorities have 
been looking for him since and have been unable to locate 
him.

The INC security source said that there is a plausible case 
to be made that one of the possible ways the Iraqi General 
Intelligence Directorate (GID) discovered the Hamburg 
terrorist cell was through the link that apparently was never 
severed between Assem Al-Jarrah and Abu Nidhal who 
according to press reports has been in Baghdad since 
December 1998, especially since Ziyad Al-Jarrah was not 
known for his devout behavior and used to drink alcohol and 
live with his Turkish-German girlfriend in Hamburg, and was 
not as extreme in his religious attitude as the rest of the 
terrorist cell. It should be noted that the Al-Jarrah family is 
known for its radical leftist leanings in the seventies and 
eighties and is considered the most prominent Sunni family 
in the town of Marj in the Lebanese Beka a Valley, and one 
of Ziyad s uncles was an activist in the Popular Front for the 
Liberation of Palestine (PFLP which was under George 
Habash back then) and now occupies an important position 
in one of Rafik Hariri s banks and was one of the managers 
of Hariri s recent successful election bid for the position of 
Prime Minister, and his other uncle is now the commander 
of the Beka a headquarters of the Lebanese General 
Security Directorate, and the family also has links to the 
Lebanese Armed Revolutionary Factions (formerly led by 
George Ibrahim Abdullah, who has been in a French prison 
since 1984) which revolved around a group of relatives from 
the Maronite town of Qobayat near the Syrian border, and 
which was responsible for a series of bombings in France 
during the first half of the 1980s.

Sabri Khalil Al-Banna (Abu Nidhal) was born in Jaffa in 1937 
and arrived in Baghdad in 1970 as the representative of the 
Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). However, Yasir 
Arafat s relationship with the Ba athist regime soured after 
Iraqi forces did not get involved as promised on the side of 
the Palestinians during the events of 1970 in Amman, which 
prompted the security apparatus to manipulate Abu Nidhal s 
violent, domineering and greedy instincts to create a new 
organization that opposes Arafat s leadership and could be 
used to perform many terrorist acts abroad that benefit Iraq 
but without having the GID being implicated. Thus, a 
campaign of physical liquidation was unleashed on 
moderate Palestinian and Arab personalities that was 
crowned by the attempted assassination of the Israeli 
ambassador in London, Shlomo Argov, on June 3, 1982 that 
sparked the Israeli invasion of Lebanon three days later 
under the command of the Defense Minister at the time, 
Ariel Sharon. Saddam s purpose in performing this 
assassination was to embarrass the Islamic Republic of 
Iran during a period of its military successes and ask for a 
cease-fire in order to tackle the Lebanese issue but the 
Iranians turned down this request. It was later proven that 
the leader of the attempt on the Israeli ambassador was 
Col. Nawaf Rosan of the GID along with two assailants from 
the Abu Nidhal group (one of them was Abu Nidhal s 
relative). Rosan was sentenced to 35 years imprisonment 
by a British court.

The security source at the INC compared the attempted 
assassination of the Israeli ambassador at one of London s 
hotels during 1982 to the professional manner in which 
Rehavam Zaeevi, the Israeli Minister, was assassinated at 
a Tel Aviv hotel last month where the assailants managed to 
get away, by saying,  Saddam may have been behind this 
operation and its purpose would have been to goad Sharon 
into launching another all-out offensive like he did in 1982 to 
overshadow a possible invasion of Iraqi Kurdistan while the 
world is preoccupied with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. I 
don t expect that the PFLP, after being unable to mount a 
single operation against a significant Israeli target in over a 
decade, can pull off such a precise and sophisticated attack 
to avenge its leader Mustafa Al-Zebri (Abu Ali Mustafa) .

Abu Nidhal had to leave Iraq during November 1983 when 
Saddam kicked him out while pursuing better relations with 
the United States, and he was rewarded exactly a year later 
with full diplomatic relations. However, the Abu Nidhal 
organization maintained an office in Baghdad and Abu 
Nidhal moved to Syria, whose own Foreign Minister 
Abdel-Halim Khaddam was targeted twice in 1976 and 
1977 for assassination by Abu Nidhal per instructions from 
the Iraqi government. Abu Nidhal stayed there until 1987 
and then he moved to Poland and then to Libya. After the 
Kuwait invasion, Abu Nidhal saw an opportunity to curry 
Saddam s favor by killing two leading PLO officials, Salah 
Khalaf (Abu Iyad) and Hayil Abdel-Hamid (Abul Hol) on 
January 14, 1991 in Tunis as punishment for what Saddam 
saw as their negative stance towards Arafat s pro-Iraq tilt 
during the crises and due to Abu Iyad s supposed links to 
Western intelligence services. The perpetrator of the attack 
was a person who pretended to defect from the Abu Nidhal 
organization and joined the PLO, and this was a method 
that the GID used to infiltrate many of its agents into other 
Palestinian groups in the West Bank and Gaza.

But this relationship did not last because Abu Nidhal started 
getting funding from the Saudi Intelligence Service in 1992, 
who set up an office for his organization in Jeddah to 
oppose the peace process embarked upon by Arafat. And in 
April 1998, the Libyan government discarded Abu Nidhal 
and handed him over to the Egyptian intelligence services 
who allowed him to be treated for leukemia in return for 
terrorist operations against Egyptian dissidents such as the 
assassination of the Islamic Egyptian dissident, 
Muhammed Salah Abdel-Muttalib in Sana a [Yemen] during 
July 1998. Abu Nidhal moved to Baghdad several months 
after the incident due to international pressures on Egypt, 
and since then Saddam s personal doctors have been 
providing medical care for him at one of the exclusive 
hospitals that caters to the regime s top officials.

The INC security source added that in addition to Abu 
Nidhal, Baghdad hosts many other Palestinian terrorist 
groups such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of 
Palestine-Special Command led by Abu Salim, and the 
bomb-making experts Col. Abdullah Abdel-Hamid Labib 
and Hussein Muhammed Al-Omari (Abu Ibrahim) from the 
disbanded 15th May Group and the Special Operations 
Group, and Muhammed Abbas Zeidan (Abul-Abbas), the 
leader of the Palestine Liberation Front who lives in a 
palace awarded to him by Saddam on a very large farm in 
the Dawra area of Baghdad near Al-Majzara, where he is 
spending his days with his Lebanese wife.




From: Spy
To: All who seem to have forgot Walter's original post when he came to this site
Date: Mon Dec 3 12:51:10 2001

Message:
From: Walter 
To: America 
Subject: 911 
Date: Fri Nov 16 06:15:09 2001 
Message:

"A day that will be remembered forever!
At least by me!I laughed my ass off all day long!
Americans are most bad mannered and ignorant people on 
the planet 
and I personally enjoyed seeing thousands of them killed 
on 
television that day!And replayed over and over!I burned 2 
CD's of 
mpegs of the world trade center crumbling like a cheap 
toy,and 
Americans running and screaming!God it was great!"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Ya think he's still "sweet" N.C. gal?

From: Walter
To: Spyte
Date: Mon Dec 3 13:26:38 2001

Message:
Poor Spyte.Look up some of your old posts about dead Arabs.

From: Walter
To: Spyte
Date: Mon Dec 3 13:33:37 2001

Message:
And you might want to look a little further back than that.That 
wasn't my first post.

From: Walter
To: Spyte
Date: Mon Dec 3 13:39:44 2001

Message:
From: Spy 
              To: You stinking dogfucking muslims around the 
whole motherfucking world!!!!!!!!! 
 Subject: You can take your dogfucking piece of shit excuse for a 
religion and shove it up your dogfucking asses as
           soon as you get your dogfucking penises out of your 
dogfucking asses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! {:@( 
                                   Date: Sat Oct 27 20:43:23 2001 
                                            Message:

                     I have listen to you asses WAY TO FUCKING 
LONG !!!!!!!!
                    We should turn that whole motherfucking 
desert into the 
                                largest glass store in the world.


From: Ashraf
To: Closed Fist/Open Mind
Subject: ...
Date: Mon Dec 3 13:17:56 2001

Message:
I thought that my response was to the point, but I huess I was 
wrong.. so let me try to re-state what I already had..
Parents dont let their children throw stones at men with machine 
guns on purpose. If you chose to overlook the fact that these 
actually are children against soldiers, then that's fine.. yet I 
hope you take a moment off to see the meaning behind that..
Parents there in Palestine are the same as parents any where 
else in the world.. They wouldn't want for their children to be 
harmed.. 
Think about the total number of children in Palestine.. around 2 
million, I would say.. The total number of children seen on TV 
are no more than 50,000 in all. Where did the remaining 
1,950,000 children go..? They are being held back by their 
parents.. Those throwing stones at soldiers most probably donot 
have parents, coz they either got arrested or shot dead.. We 
shouldnt forget that these parents were actually terrorists, 
trying to loosen the Jewish grip on their occupied lands, and 
thus, deserved the bullets.. Mohd. Al-Durra was amonst the 
1,950,000 being kept at home. But on that day, he was on his way 
to school, along with his terrorist father.. Since either one of 
them had to be a terrorist, where the bullet chose to wonder, is 
unquestionalbly, a matter of "Tough Luck" I would say.. right?

Peace will never be achieved, unless the Jews stay on their part 
of Palestine.. Otherwise, I fear this will forever go on.. and 
the ultimate losers are the Palestinians and their children, as 
long as Papa Bush keeps providing Israel with all the state of 
the art toys it needs, to supress the stones thrown by the 
Palestinians.. and the saga shall continue..

I hope this answers your question Bro..

Peace.

From:
To:
Date: Mon Dec 3 14:04:16 2001

Message:
Arafat is a terrorist.

From: Ashraf
To: Noah
Subject: ...
Date: Mon Dec 3 13:54:55 2001

Message:
Great reponse to the poster in the name of God.. I always knew 
that you dont need to be a Muslim to believe in God, and I've 
come across many of the kind, but you've just made that 
abundantly clear.. WE have also been told this in the verse from 
Al-Baqara, I'd posted earlier.. I sincerely look forward to 
hearing from you, and I wont tell ur wify.. ;) When I told my 
wife about what I'd done, ie posting my number on the board, she 
laughed and said: Cool.. now they'll come over and shoot both of 
us.. but she kept on smiling..

Thanx for your response, and for ur other responses posted to 
John and Walter.. A good heart shines like the sun..

Take care..

Salam..

From: Ashraf
To: Walter
Subject: ...
Date: Mon Dec 3 14:07:25 2001

Message:
If I were to be deceived by the person using your name, I never 
would have figured out what you were all about.. I know it wasnt 
you Bro.. so chill.. ;)

Let them have their fun, and we'll all lol.. Keep smiling, keep 
thinking..

Peace..

From: Ashraf
To: Spy..
Subject: ...
Date: Mon Dec 3 14:10:52 2001

Message:
A typical reaction, after reading the above post written about 
Arabs and Muslims, would be to blacklist you for the same..
That, I wont do, coz everyone is entitled to a mess up..
And what you'd re-posted about Walter, to get NC Gal to re-
consider her words to Walter, is not a peeaceful move either, 
and she could react in the same way that I'd refrained from 
reacting with, if she so, choses to do.. Either way, that wasnt 
cool..
I understand your suspicious nature, but not everyone would post 
their opinions in the exact same manner that you would, and the 
same applies to Walter, he's no exception..
It would be selfish of you to assume that you're the only one 
upset about the Sept. 11th's attacks.. we're all upset, 
frustrated and as Muslims, we're defamed.. and this feeling of 
yours and ours, should not be an excuse to find the first human 
punching bag that comes across, and to shut off all channels to 
understand who is actually saying what, especially after 
explanations have been given by the punching bag, without any 
prior complaints against the punches, nor the threats to take it 
to the FBI..

Dont be stubborn, be cool, and had I thought you dont have that 
ability, I wouldnt have typed out these words to you, coz my 
typing sucks..

Peace..

From: John
To: om/cf
Date: Mon Dec 3 13:50:01 2001

Message:
You said -->  "Where in my post did I say I was all for a 
Palistinian state or making concessions to terrorists? That 
second part was taken from an Isreali site and Im sure it was 
not meant as positive for Palistine by any means."

*******

Hi.  I in no way interpreted your post as though you believed a 
PA state should be.  I was but clarifying my position and what I 
believe to be the Bush Admins. position.  Have a great day!

John
E...

PS -  anticipate a wordy post from me shortly spelling it out 
clearly for even the most dumbest of all to finally understand 
what this war is and why this war is...

From: Ashraf
To: ...
Subject: ...
Date: Mon Dec 3 14:27:09 2001

Message:
Sharon is a terrorist..

Peace..

From: Walter
To: All
Date: Mon Dec 3 14:43:43 2001

Message:
Israel: Sharon Investigation Urged

                 (New York, June 23, 2001) -- A criminal 
investigation into Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon s role in 
the
                 massacre of civilians in the Palestinian refugee 
camps of Sabra and Shatilla should be launched, Human Rights
                 Watch urged today. The Israeli leader will meet 
on Tuesday at the White House with President Bush.

                                              The call by Human
                                              Rights Watch came 
as
                                              Prime Minister 
Sharon
                                              begins a visit to 
the
                                              United States. The 
Israeli
                                              leader s visit here 
comes
                                              as controversy 
mounts in
                                              Europe over his
                                              responsibility for 
the
                                              1982 killings.

                                               There is abundant
                                              evidence that war 
crimes
                                              and crimes against
                                              humanity were
                                              committed on a wide
                                              scale in the Sabra 
and
                                              Shatilla massacre, 
but to
                                              date, not a single 
individual has been brought to justice,  said Hanny
                                              Megally, executive 
director of the Middle East and North Africa division
                                              of Human Rights 
Watch.  President Bush should urge Prime Minister
                                              Sharon to cooperate 
with any investigation. 
Details of the massacre: The massacre at the Sabra and Shatilla 
refugee camps occurred between September
                 16 and 18, 1982, after Israel Defense Forces 
( IDF ) then occupying Beirut and under Ariel Sharon s overall
                 command as Israeli Defense Minister permitted 
members of the Phalange militia into the camps. The precise
                 civilian death toll most likely will never be 
known. Israeli military intelligence estimated that between 700 
and 800
                 people were killed in Sabra and Shatilla during 
the sixty-two-hour rampage, while Palestinian and other sources
                 have claimed that the dead numbered up to 
several thousand. The victims included infants, children, women
                 (including pregnant women), and the elderly, 
some of whom were mutilated or disemboweled before or after they
                 were killed. Journalists who arrived on the 
scene immediately after the massacre also saw evidence of the
                 summary execution of young men. To cite only one 
contemporaneous account, that of Thomas Friedman of the
                 New York Times:  [M]ostly I saw groups of young 
men in their twenties and thirties who had been lined up
                 against walls, tied by their hands and feet, and 
then mowed down gangland-style with fusillades of machine-gun
                 fire. 
http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/06/isr0622.htm

From: Walter
To:
Date: Mon Dec 3 14:51:11 2001

Message:
NEWS & FEATURES


                                 Sharon may face massacre charge 
                                 A survivor of a 1982 massacre of 
Palestinian civilians is trying to open a war crimes case
                                 against the man she holds 
responsible - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Mr Sharon was
                                 Israeli defence minister when a 
Lebanese Christian militia allied to Israel killed hundreds of
                                 civilians at the Sabra and 
Chatila refugee camps.  - BBC, 6/18/2001 

                                 Israel blasts Gaza from land, 
sea and air 
                                 Israel launched air, sea and 
ground attacks on the Gaza Strip last night, capping a day
                                 that saw tensions climb sharply 
all over the Middle East. Helicopter and navy gunships
                                 bombarded a post of Yasser 
Arafat's elite Force 17 security section in Deir al-Balah in
                                 central Gaza, and armoured 
bulldozers, backed by tank fire, rolled into Palestinian-ruled
                                 territory at Beit Hanoun, in the 
north of the territory.  - The Guardian, 4/17/2001 

                                 Some Call Israel's Sharon a War 
Criminal 
                                 Sitting in the one room that 
serves as a home for her family of nine, Saada Akileh wonders
                                 aloud how a man responsible for 
massacres can become the prime minister of a country.
                                  - InterPress / globalinfo.org, 
2/5/2001 

                                 Middle East: Amnesty warns of 
war crimes 
                                 Amnesty International said 
yesterday that Israeli troops were using excessive force in
                                 battles with Palestinians, and 
that violations of human rights during recent weeks could
                                 constitute war crimes. . "If a 
kid is throwing stones at you, but is not putting any lives at
                                 risk, then you do not shoot 
him," said Claudio Cordone, a researcher for the human rights
                                 group.  - The Guardian, UK, 
11/2/2000 

From: Ashraf
To: All..
Subject: ...
Date: Mon Dec 3 14:59:51 2001

Message:
My sister just got married almost 4 months back. Her husband is 
named: Chaddy Shateela, from the area in which the above 
massacre took place..

Despite the fact that his mother is Italian, and he can barely 
speak Arabic, yet he's outraged at the incidents, which claimed 
the life of his grandfather, who was the head-Chief in Shateela..

The point is, the above incident really did take place.. No 
doubt about it..

Sharon is a criminal of war, even if people opt to overlook the 
Palestinian case, and terrorist acts carried out by him 
therein.. 

Peace..

From: EagleEye
To: AssRashf
Subject: Hypocrites
Date: Mon Dec 3 14:02:39 2001

Message:
Cant wait to "see" you too. You may want to wait for your visit 
to Cook's until after the New Year, as with impending holidays, 
family in town and rainy weather, I dont foresee too many rides 
till then.  But you go right ahead if your so determined.  Im 
quite sure you wont be hard pressed to "strike" up a 
conversation with any of the other Hog Ridin, Flag Wavin, Arab 
Distrusting Patrons.  Be sure to bring your health insurance 
card.

" Mohd. Al-Durra was amonst the 
1,950,000 being kept at home. But on that day, he was on his way 
to school, along with his terrorist father.. Since either one of 
them had to be a terrorist, where the bullet chose to wonder, is 
unquestionalbly, a matter of "Tough Luck" I would say.. right?"

Though my earlier posts about this topic were out of normal 
character, and meant to get a reaction from Waldo ...... I find 
it interesting that you and other Palastinians hold on to this 
and other such "singular" incidents as horrific, yet the very 
same could be true to those "terrorist" Isreali youths shopping 
in the malls,  those "terrorist" Isreali bus riders, and that 
Isreali motorist shot at point blank in their car by the KOOK 
that got off'd by the Isreali soldiers recently.

"We 
shouldnt forget that these parents were actually terrorists, 
trying to loosen the Jewish grip on their occupied lands, and 
thus, deserved the bullets....."

Maybe they shouldnt have been such "asses of a man" and accepted 
the terms laid before them in 1948.  They likely would have if 
it werent for the promises of their bretheren [egypt, syria, 
lebannon] of the anhilation of the Jews. Major miscalculation 
that they all got their asses kicked.  Arabs and Muslims arent 
real big on admitting a mistake are they?

We hear a lot about how the Jews are taking control of 
Palastinian lands and that Isreal is the only country with no 
defined borders ...... Interesting theory .... Whats the western 
border of Palastine according to Arafat?  ... the Mediterranean 
sea?  What were the borders after they Isreal kicked the shit of 
the countries that attacked her?  How much did they give back?  
But I guess that accounts for nothing ever.  Arabs cant admit 
when they get their asses kicked either can they?

I dont agree with much of what goes on over there on both sides, 
but Palastinians, regardless of how many innocent people they 
mame and kill will NOT get what they want that way. [more 
territory]  How much revenge can they wish to get?  Their ways 
will only lead to their extinction.  Some times you need to 
learn to take your lumps and move on.  The Jews seemed to manage 
to put things back together after Hitler ....... maybe time the 
Arabs/Muslims/Palastinians did the same.

From: Walter
To: EagleDung
Date: Mon Dec 3 15:28:21 2001

Message:
Though my earlier posts about this topic were out of normal 
                character, and meant to get a reaction from Waldo 
......

 I guess that YOU resort to the same tactics as I do.LOL!!!

From: EagleEye
To: Walter / AssRashf
Subject: One need look no farther than .......
Date: Mon Dec 3 15:17:52 2001

Message:
"Some Call Israel's Sharon a War 
Criminal 

Sitting in the one room that serves as a home for her family of 
nine, Saada Akileh wonders aloud how a man responsible for 
massacres can become the prime minister of a country.
                                  
- InterPress / globalinfo.org, 2/5/2001 "

All she needs to do to figure this connundrum out is to look out 
her front door at the life size poster of Arafat's face 
plastered everywhere.  Pretty simple really.

Look if murderous swine terrorists like Hamas are murdering your 
friends and family, do you send a band of peace sign waving 
teenagers in to do the job, or do you go after them with someone 
who speaks their language?  Im not a big "fan" of Sharon, but he 
speaks the lnaguage Arafat and Hamas comprehend - DEATH.  
Fortunately for the latter, and the World their death before 
his.  Arafat, Sharon et al are guilty of the same hideous acts.  
Now what?  Isreal is never going to let its guard down again to 
appease ruthless murderous bandits, and I dont see anyone 
providing the needed military firepower to the said individuals 
anytime soon - pack it in and move elsewhere.

From: EagleEye
To: Waldo
Subject: "similar"
Date: Mon Dec 3 15:35:08 2001

Message:
" I guess that YOU resort to the same tactics as I do.LOL!!!"

Uhhhhh ..... Im not at all confused as to what side of the fence 
Im on, and my stance as to where I am at with MY country is 
pretty clear.

Still to this day ... I cannot fathom how someone who served in 
the military "willingly", and has obviously benefitted a great 
deal, and whose family likely has done the same from living in 
America could pronounce to have such vile hatred towards it and 
its people ... just to prove "some" point?

I must have missed a few of your posts where you revealed just 
what your point and purpose was ... other than chaos, a disdain 
for spelling errors and too divide.  I realize your having fun, 
but maybe you could point out the heinous error of our 
ways ........

From: EagleEye
To: Americans
Subject: I was gonna ask for Odds ......
Date: Mon Dec 3 15:48:53 2001

Message:
"Abdul Hamid, also known as John Phillip Walker Lindh, 20, of 
Northern California, is in U.S. custody in Afghanistan" 

I was gonna ask for odds from you all when I saw this released 
from Time Mag. before they knew his american name,..... on the 
chances of this turd being from California.

Now, what are the odds of this shitbag getting a book deal and 
becoming a millionaire?  Im saying near 100% 

From: Ashraf
To: Evil-Eye..
Subject: ...
Date: Mon Dec 3 15:42:01 2001

Message:
A phone-number.. Put up or Zip it..

Peace..

From: an Italian guy
To: all
Subject: poor persecuted Islam Terrorists
Date: Mon Dec 3 15:23:49 2001

Message:
Yesterday in the Roman airport of Fiumicino the police caught an 
important Egyptian member of Al-quaeda. The day before in Milan 
they caught more Al-queda terrorists. Here in Naples are now 
under a trial three Arabs, charged with terrorism. 
The ones in Milan said (or wrote, I don't remember) to each 
other "Europe is in our hands. We have to be like snakes - we 
first have to hit and then to hide".
As it seems, this is the way such people see Europe.

By the way, I posted my address and no Islam thug looked for me 
yet. FURIO CARMIGNANI - Via G.Leopardi, 192/4 - 80125 NAPLES.  :)




From: Walter
To: Eagle Eye
Subject: I agree with all but #36.
Date: Mon Dec 3 16:39:32 2001

Message:
On the morning following the election of George Bush as our 43rd 
President, 
and during the campaign I learned that I am viewed by the media 
as a "Bad 
American".  Therefore I confess my new status: 
1.  I don't care about appearing compassionate.  
2.  I don't think playing with toy guns makes you become a 
killer.  
3.  I own hand guns, rifles, and shotguns and it's not any of 
your business.  
4.  I believe liberal "Democrat" politicians are liars.  
5.  I think I am better than homeless bums.  
6.  I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized. 
 
7.  I've never owned or been a slave; I haven't burned any 
witches or been 
persecuted by the Turks and neither have you.  So, stop trying to 
pass out 
undeserved guilt trips.  
8.  I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, you do it in 
English.  
America's language is English.  Learn it or leave.  
9.  I don't like MTV nor do I want comedians of little note 
telling me about 
football.  
10.  I know what the definition of lying is.  So does Bill 
Clinton.  
11.  I know that newspaper reporting is inaccurate, biased, and 
often times, 
fiction.  
12.  I define television news as "bizarre events" presented to 
mindless 
viewers by unprepared clowns.  
13.  I think "hate crime" legislation is drivel.  No minority, 
homosexual, 
disabled, foreign, or any other differentiated group has any more 
social 
value than I do.  If anyone kills anyone, that's a hate crime and 
our legal 
system will deal with it.  
14.  I believe that turkey bacon will kill you too.  
15.  I don't think it takes a village to raise a child.  It takes 
parents who 
will tell that child "NO !" and mean it.  
16.  I paid for it and I don't care to recycle it.  You may do so 
if you 
please.  
17.  I didn't realize Dr.  Seuss was a genius until I had kids.  
18.  I think the Taco Bell dog was funny -- the name of the 
product is 
Mexican food.  
19.  I like fireworks.  Some explosions are cool.  
20.  I accept that you may listen to stupid and loud music if you 
want to; 
but, that doesn't mean I have to listen to your crap when I'm 
stopped at a 
red light.  
21.  I don't think being a student provides you with any more 
enlightenment 
than working at Blockbuster or McDonalds.  
22.  I won't eat or drink anything with "light" or "lite" or 
"fat-free" on 
the package.  
23.  I believe every student has a right to pray in school.  
24.  I don't hate the rich.  
25.  I don't pity the poor.  
26.  I know TV wrestling is faked.  
27.  I think global warming is bull - * * * t.  
28.  I still think Barney Fife is funny.  
29.  I believe that a self-righteous liberal with a cause is more 
dangerous 
than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.  
30.  I think our cops have every right to shoot your sorry butt 
if you're 
running away from a burglary at 2:30 in the morning.  
31.  I think Archie was right; Rob Reiner is a meat-head.  
32.  I assure you of this.  I WILL get even before I let God 
finish up with 
you.  
33.  I like big cars, and big houses, and golf at a private club. 
 
34.  I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family; not 
some 
mid-level clerk with a bad education who wants to give it away to 
some 
welfare dependent crack addict.  
35.  I do not evade taxes but I seriously endeavor to keep the 
government at 
their lowest legal level of confiscation.  
36.  I assure you that Rush is right about most things and the 
rest is not 
all that important.  
37.  I want you to keep honking while I'm re-loading.  
38.  I believe that Hillary is a bitch and her husband deserves 
her.  

From: Justice
To: EagleEye
Subject: The Odds
Date: Mon Dec 3 16:44:14 2001

Message:
Sadly enough you are probably right.  Americans will want to 
know all about this piece of shit.  He will claim 
being "brainwashed" and get to be famous in the public eye and 
probably make lots of money because of it.  He should be put on 
trial for treason or just left in Afghanistan.

From: Justice
To: Walter
Date: Mon Dec 3 16:49:11 2001

Message:
Aren't those the words of Ted Nugent?

From: Walter
To: Eagle Eye
Date: Mon Dec 3 16:54:41 2001

Message:
I don't know.A friend e-mailed that to me.
His type of music isn't what I listen to,but I like to hear him 
talk!

From: Missin'
To: Walter
Subject: Not You...I Know that Now
Date: Mon Dec 3 09:32:48 2001

Message:
From: Walter 
To: Ashraf 
Date: Mon Dec 3 00:55:45 2001 
Message:

From: om/cf
To: all
Subject: Oh My God!
Date: Mon Dec 3 17:15:23 2001

Message:

From: om/cf
To: all
Date: Mon Dec 3 17:51:41 2001

Message:
When the MotorCity Madman no longer believes in Pro Wrestling,
the only real sport left in America, Im outta this godforsaken
country!

From: Justice
To: om/cf
Subject: Calm yourself
Date: Mon Dec 3 17:59:20 2001

Message:
Unpack your bags.  Enhance your calm.  Take deep breaths.  
Imagine yourself in a happy place.  The MotorCity Madman still 
believes in wrestling, he just knows it is fake.  He would not 
forsake the greatest form of entertainment in the U.S.

From: Missin'
To: All
Subject: Back to the Real (Ugh) World
Date: Mon Dec 3 17:19:36 2001

Message:
Hi All,

Justice, the original was credited to Ted Nugent, but I checked 
out his website and the admin of that site said that the rumor 
was false...Ted did NOT write that.  It's also been changed 
several times.  The one Walter posted has been "refined" yet 
again.

Walter, I've enjoyed reading your posts from the weekend, and I 
find many of your views that I can agree with...Thanks for 
posting them.  I think I can finally tell which posts are yours 
and which are not...like Noah, it's been way confusing for me to 
figure out in the past.

Eagle-Eye, I pretty much agree with your take on the 
Israeli/Palestinian conflict.  I did hear that Arafat had 
arrested more than 100 people after this weekend's atacks, and 
that Sharon said that wasn't nearly good enough...so, military 
attacks by Israel would be NO surprise.  I have SOME sympathy 
for the Palestinians (I know 3 personally who came here to live 
prosperous lives in peace...and they are good people) because I 
believe that their land was taken by force with the help of the 
Brits.  I think that this could have been resolved peacefully 
though if the terrorist groups had been stifled.  Attacking 
women and children in shopping malls is a sure-fire way to NOT 
get what you want in my book.

U.K. Citizen, I am very happy that you decided to come back.  I 
still don't know what I might have said that made you leave, but 
believe me when I say that I was NEVER offended by anything 
you've said.  I've always looked forward to reading your posts.

U.K. Vices, Didn't your Father ever tell you that reading 
tabloids will rot your brain?  Why don't you get a really good 
dictionary, and try reading some legitimate news instead of 
garbage provided by the Taliban press.  Why would you think that 
their news is more honest and enlightening than ours?  For 
heaven's sake, idiot...they don't even allow carrier pigeons or 
kites...someone might find out how bad things are if a repressed 
Afghani citizen were able to get the truth out!  And, here's one 
other thing I find hard to understand...how did we get so many 
troops killed before they were even on the ground there?  Or, 
are you saying we sneaked them in way before the reporters knew 
about it?  You and backgrounder should get together and write a 
fantasy novel...You both have really wild imaginations...or 
really narrow ideas.

Backgrounder...ditto the message to U.K. Vices...up to the 
word "garbage".  If I believed every alarmist conspiracy theory 
I've been subjected to...I'd be in a padded cell for sure.  If 
what you've said IS true?  God will sort it all out later.

Hi to everyone else...it's taken way too long to read up on all 
the weekend posts and catch myself up, so forgive me if I don't 
respond to your posts until things slow down.

NC Gal, I'm glad you're here...I'm praying that your son will 
return home safe and sound.

From: Everyman
To: om/cf, Justice
Subject: But look what it leads to...
Date: Mon Dec 3 18:10:14 2001

Message:
Where else but America can one go from wrestling in the ring to 
wrestling in the government arena?

From: om/cf
To: Justice
Subject: happy places
Date: Mon Dec 3 18:12:43 2001

Message:
Just kidding of course, but it would be interesting to hear
Teds views on current events and if asked Im sure he would
respond, no holds barred. He's a hell of an outdoorsman and
hunter and very much in favor of honest citizens guns rights.
 I wonder what he would think of the board..........

From: EagleEye
To: Everyman
Subject: Wrestling w/ the GOV
Date: Mon Dec 3 18:21:35 2001

Message:
Id take Jesse Ventura over the sad excuse for a man named Grey 
Davis any day.  He sold us all out to the Enrons just so he 
could keep his 120v electric Butt-Plugg operating at full power 
during the mystery "shortage".

I don know much about Wrestling .. other than a few adverts and 
bits you see flipping channels - but doubtful that character 
that calls himself "The Rock" could fuck it up any WORSE than 
Davis ... or half of em for that matter.

From: EagleEye
To: Missin'
Subject: Palstinians here in peace ???? How?
Date: Mon Dec 3 18:28:40 2001

Message:
"I have SOME sympathy 
for the Palestinians (I know 3 personally who came here to live 
prosperous lives in peace...and they are good people) because I 
believe that their land was taken by force with the help of the 
Brits."

How could they be here in peace?  America is the land of the 
great SATAN is it not?  How could they find peace here?  
Lies ... Lies Lies all jewish media controlled lies I say.  
America the evil one ......

Wonder if Jews disappeared tomorrow if your 3 palastinian 
friends would pack up and move back whence they came ..... or 
stay in USA?

From: Spy
To: Walter
Date: Mon Dec 3 17:53:12 2001

Message:
Walter---my mistake if it wasn't your first post.However
when you posted this---

From: Walter 
To: America 
Subject: 911 
Date: Fri Nov 16 06:15:09 2001 
Message:

"A day that will be remembered forever!
At least by me!I laughed my ass off all day long!
Americans are most bad mannered and ignorant people on 
the planet 
and I personally enjoyed seeing thousands of them killed 
on 
television that day!And replayed over and over!I burned 2 
CD's of 
mpegs of the world trade center crumbling like a cheap 
toy,and 
Americans running and screaming!God it was great!"

I take it that you meant it---THEREFORE, I consider you an
enemy of my nation , my Lord, and most definitly an enemy 
of myself.
Hey--if you don't like it---TOO FUCKING BAD !!!
 
And yes --I did post this---

From: Spy 
              "To: You stinking dogfucking muslims around the 
whole motherfucking world!!!!!!!!! 
 Subject: You can take your dogfucking piece of shit excuse 
for a 
religion and shove it up your dogfucking asses as
           soon as you get your dogfucking penises out of your 
dogfucking asses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! {:@( 
                                   Date: Sat Oct 27 20:43:23 2001 
                                            Message:

                     I have listen to you asses WAY TO FUCKING 
LONG !!!!!!!!
                    We should turn that whole motherfucking 
desert into the 
                                largest glass store in the world."

Because I've totally had it with Islam terror 
supporting/backing nations that display their courage 
by killing unarmed civilians in malls instead of having the 
GUTS to fight the nation's military forces that they disagree 
with.
I've had it with hijacking civilian planes and killing the 
civilians.
I've had it with the arab or whatever race terrorist that kill
people in wheelchairs.
I've had it with the Islam nations hiding behind a false god 
and a false religion---killing in the name of said false god
and walking around going "peace"----what a crock of shit.

So get it through your fucking head--you are my enemy .
And I don't care if you're fuckin' deranged like you try to 
portray yourself at times----I just can't fuckin' stand you.



From: Spy
To: Walter
Date: Mon Dec 3 18:39:17 2001

Message:
ps--I wanted to make sure NC Gal got the Full picture of you.

From: Walter
To: Eagle Eye
Date: Mon Dec 3 18:19:52 2001

Message:
I'm gonna try to get to John Walker as soon as they bring him 
back to the U.S..First,a deal with the Star and National Insider 
since his Mom's already telling people he was"brainwashed".That 
oughta bring in around 100k.Next,put so many anti-American bits 
in that bookstores refuse to sell it here.Then,A TV 
mini-info-mercial to sell"I Was A Taliban Whore!" with a 
Spingsteen sound-alike in the background singing:"Banned In The 
U.S.A."Fuckin Millions!MILLIONS!
 
P.S.I have to find things to laugh about,Ashcroft just gave new 
information on terrorist threats during the Christmas holiday.

From: Ashraf
To: Spy..
Subject: ...
Date: Mon Dec 3 18:52:05 2001

Message:
When u r through with the punching bag, we'll talk.. 

From: Spy 
              "To: You stinking dogfucking muslims around the 
whole motherfucking world!!!!!!!!! 
 Subject: You can take your dogfucking piece of shit excuse 
for a 
religion and shove it up your dogfucking asses as
           soon as you get your dogfucking penises out of your 
dogfucking asses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! {:@( 
                                   Date: Sat Oct 27 20:43:23 
2001 

Very "Uncool" of you.. 

Im a Muslim, so does this aplly to me too??
Islam is my religion, against which you made the above 
statements..

Peace..

From: Walter
To: Spyte
Date: Mon Dec 3 18:51:21 2001

Message:
So get it through your fucking head--you are my enemy .
                  And I don't care if you're fuckin' deranged 
like you try to 
                  portray yourself at times----I just can't 
fuckin' stand you.

It's OK spyte,I LIKE the fact that a person such as yourself is 
my enemy.You've made a lot of phony threats to me,none of which 
have panned out.Calm down,and make a plan.I would enjoy it very 
much if you would come after me.I've been taught by the United 
States Army on how to kill,and I would like to share some of my 
experience with you.Please hunt me down,and make me pay.

Spyte:I take it that you meant it---THEREFORE, I consider you an
                   enemy of my nation , my Lord, and most 
definitly an enemy 
                                           of myself.
                         Hey--if you don't like it---TOO FUCKING 
BAD !!!
          
Are YOU declaring a"Jihad"?LOL!!! Have you thought of changing 
your handle from Spy to Boy?Its much more descriptive.           
                             

From: Spy
To: Ashraf
Subject: I don't recall addressing you---but here goes--
Date: Mon Dec 3 18:45:51 2001

Message:
Arafat the Arafuck is a TERRORIST!!!...and the ONLY peace 
he and his cronies want is the PIECE OF LAND that 
comprises the WHOLE of Isreal. He and most of the 
Arab/Islam world want the total destruction of Jews--and if 
you try to tell me different, you are a liar or blind as a dead 
pig.

And what the hell does this mean---?

"And what you'd re-posted about Walter, to get NC Gal to re-
consider her words to Walter, is not a peeaceful move 
either, 
and she could react in the same way that I'd refrained from 
reacting with, if she so, choses to do.. Either way, that wasnt 
cool.."

I hardly think she is going to give me any shit about knowing 
all sides of Walterfruitfly dick. So what's your point Ashraf?
As far as you "blacklisting" me----what ---am I suppose to 
care. Am I suppose to cry myself to sleep tonight----Well it 
ain't gonna happen.Sorry to burst your bubble.

You just keep going around like a hippie, saying "peace" 
and "cool". Knock yourself out .


From: Spy
To: Walterfruitfly dick
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:18:28 2001

Message:
Show me were I said I'm comming after your smelly ass.
Ya can't asshole.HOWEVER---I hope someone does.
Maybe they'll use my ideas---maybe they got some other 
ones themselfs.

Remember Wally--theres alway hope.

Also---I say these things I say in public to fellow Americans--
face to face--even cops.Bet you can't.Bet you won't--coward.

From: Spy
To: Ashraf
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:29:01 2001

Message:
You're the "cool" one who said you wanted ta get EagleEye 
and slit the throat of that one dude.

Yeah--and all you are saying is give "peace" a chance--

From: Missin'
To: Eagle-Eye
Subject: Palestinian Friends
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:30:22 2001

Message:
Hey Eagle-Eye,
I really can't speak for them, but I truly doubt they'd ever go 
back.  All three are men in their 50's, one has already 
retired...he was a nuclear engineer at a power plant near 
here.   His family owned land in the Gaza strip...questionable 
as to whether they'll ever see it again.  His brother is a 
Urologist, and the 3rd owns an excellent Middle Eastern 
Restaurant that I frequent as often as I'm near there.

I think the BIG picture is still the same.  Not ALL Muslims are 
terrorists.  Not ALL Palestinians are terrorists.  Not all 
Israeli's are terrorists.  Just as not ALL American's are 
Skinheads.  I still maintain my view that there is great danger 
in lumping people into groups rather than taking them one by one 
and deciding whether or not you like them.  Another really good 
example is U.K Vices...the only Brit I've ever "met" online that 
I didn't like.

From: U.K. Voices
To: Walter
Subject: How come you're a rarity in America?
Date: Mon Dec 3 18:29:51 2001

Message:
This board has proved to so many people that many Americans just 
put up the shutters and slap each other on the back crying "yee 
haa".  But you are not like that.  I can tell you that I come 
here to see if they are slowly learning because I know that most 
organisms are capable of learning - although some pretty 
slowly.  Fortunately, I do know that not all Americans are like 
this bunch.  These people here cannot tolerate another point of 
view.  They just swear, cuss, shout, scream, threaten and spew 
vile venomous hatred in response to anything they can't handle.  
They are here to vent their frustrations and exert their egos.  
I like that as it is easy for me to rattle their monkey cage.  
It's like going to the zoo and watching a behaviorial scientist 
pull a face at the monkeys.  They scream, jump run wild and 
finally settle down.  Then the scientist does it again and the 
same result occurs but this time slightly muted.  This can carry 
on until the monkeys no longer react.  If another scientist 
comes and does the same thing the monkeys go wild again - as if 
to prove to him that they are capable of a response.  What is 
this and why is this behavior reflected here?  Their intolerance 
is worse than the Taliban they are trying to eradicate.  If 
America was eradicated of these people it'd be a respectable 
country that the West could introduce to our friends.  It is 
like they eradicated the Red Indians and committed large-scale 
genocide.  That was apperently for the "greater good" like it is 
now to kill Afghan civilians as a necessary evil to eradicate Al-
Qaida.  Why don't these right-winged war-mongers just stand up 
for what they believe and let the world eradicate them for the 
greater good of humanity?  Come on Walter.  You can shed light 
on this.  They will just come back with pointless hate-filled 
drivel.  At least you don't just close your eyes and go along 
with the rest of them like lemmings.

Take care dear trans-atlantic cousins.  Try to be tolerant.  
It's good for the soul.


From: Radio Europe
To: cable subscribers
Subject: pees, beards
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:12:21 2001

Message:
From: Ashraf 
To: ... 
Subject: ... 
Date: Mon Dec 3 14:27:09 2001 
Message:

Sharon is a terrorist..

Peace..



And Arafat is a clown, dancing for Islamist extremists, Radio 
Europe...



From: an Italian guy 
To: all Muslims here (especially Walter and U.K.Voices) 
Date: Sun Dec 2 16:58:21 2001 
Message:

Is anybody of you named "Ken"?

The Walters, maybe? Except for the good one...



From: North Carolina Gal 
To: Justice USA 
Subject: smoke 
Date: Sun Dec 2 19:19:55 2001 
Message:

Sorry about the smoke...Being from North Carolina I tend to 
forget that there are some out there that don't smoke..I 
promise 
to move my ashtray away from the keyboard and try not to 
blow 
any smoke your way.......


Radio are actually enjoying some grass from south Texas , 
what do you call this stuff? It goes extremely well with a 
1996 Chateau la Roseraie (Lalande de Pomerol), wich for 
those of you currently enjoying ramaddan is a red wine...



From: EagleEye 
To: Radio Europe 
Subject: Done Deal 
Date: Mon Dec 3 11:50:26 2001 
Message:

Any idea what the past due bill at the UN is?


Do you mind us jotting down crosses for zeros while doing 
our homework?


From: Walter 
To: All 
Date: Mon Dec 3 14:43:43 2001 
Message:

Israel: Sharon Investigation Urged

                 (New York, June 23, 2001) -- A criminal 
investigation into Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon s role in 
the
                 massacre of civilians in the Palestinian refugee 
camps of Sabra and Shatilla should be launched, Human 
Rights
                 Watch urged today. The Israeli leader will meet 
on Tuesday at the White House with President Bush.

                                              The call by Human
                                              Rights Watch came 
as
                                              Prime Minister 
Sharon
                                              begins a visit to 
the
                                              United States. The 
Israeli
                                              leader s visit here 
comes
                                              as controversy 
mounts in
                                              Europe over his
                                              responsibility for 
the
                                              1982 killings.

                                               There is abundant
                                              evidence that war 
crimes
                                              and crimes against
                                              humanity were
                                              committed on a wide
                                              scale in the Sabra 
and
                                              Shatilla massacre, 
but to
                                              date, not a single 
individual has been brought to justice,  said Hanny
                                              Megally, executive 
director of the Middle East and North Africa division
                                              of Human Rights 
Watch.  President Bush should urge Prime Minister
                                              Sharon to cooperate 
with any investigation. 
Details of the massacre: The massacre at the Sabra and 
Shatilla 
refugee camps occurred between September
                 16 and 18, 1982, after Israel Defense Forces 
( IDF ) then occupying Beirut and under Ariel Sharon s 
overall
                 command as Israeli Defense Minister permitted 
members of the Phalange militia into the camps. The 
precise
                 civilian death toll most likely will never be 
known. Israeli military intelligence estimated that between 
700 
and 800
                 people were killed in Sabra and Shatilla during 
the sixty-two-hour rampage, while Palestinian and other 
sources
                 have claimed that the dead numbered up to 
several thousand. The victims included infants, children, 
women
                 (including pregnant women), and the elderly, 
some of whom were mutilated or disemboweled before or 
after they
                 were killed. Journalists who arrived on the 
scene immediately after the massacre also saw evidence of 
the
                 summary execution of young men. To cite only one 
contemporaneous account, that of Thomas Friedman of the
                 New York Times:  [M]ostly I saw groups of young 
men in their twenties and thirties who had been lined up
                 against walls, tied by their hands and feet, and 
then mowed down gangland-style with fusillades of 
machine-gun
                 fire. 
http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/06/isr0622.htm


Now there's a "cut&past job", Walter


From: Ashraf 
To: Spy.. 
Subject: ... 
Date: Mon Dec 3 18:52:05 2001 
Message:

When u r through with the punching bag, we'll talk.. 

From: Spy 
              "To: You stinking dogfucking muslims around the 
whole motherfucking world!!!!!!!!! 
 Subject: You can take your dogfucking piece of shit excuse 
for a 
religion and shove it up your dogfucking asses as
           soon as you get your dogfucking penises out of your 
dogfucking asses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! {:@( 
                                   Date: Sat Oct 27 20:43:23 
2001 

Very "Uncool" of you.. 

Im a Muslim, so does this aplly to me too??
Islam is my religion, against which you made the above 
statements..

Peace..



Wrong, Ashraf, Islam is a docrine....  
And peace is when Osama's wearing a tux.... and Blair a 
turban (and beard)....




It is 01,26 GMT...........


Good Night from Europe, this was Radio Europe.





p.s. I recommend all of you to read -and re-read- the E.S.D. 
carefully;  who needs CNN anymore? Or Al Jazheera, for that 
matter...

From: Spy
To: Walter
Subject: all I want to know is if you meant this and did you post it.
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:43:07 2001

Message:
If ya didn't--then I'll back off. If you didn't on both counts, then 
I'll apologize.


"A day that will be remembered forever!
At least by me!I laughed my ass off all day long!
Americans are most bad mannered and ignorant people on 
the planet 
and I personally enjoyed seeing thousands of them killed 
on 
television that day!And replayed over and over!I burned 2 
CD's of 
mpegs of the world trade center crumbling like a cheap 
toy,and 
Americans running and screaming!God it was great!"

From: U.K. Voices
To: SpyFinger
Subject: Palestine
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:46:58 2001

Message:
Get out of here Spy.  You DO NOT have the right to speak of 
Palestine.  You did not create it and give it to the 
Israelites.  We did.  We wrote the Balfour Declaration and we 
made the decisions.  Get your dirty little stinking hands out of 
our work.  When WE decide if We think it is being run as a 
proper state as WE intended, then WE will UNILATERALLY decide 
whether to let the Israelites keep it or not.  If WE want to 
give it back to the Palestinians, then WE will.  You have no say.

From: U.K. Voices
To: missin'
Subject: you have not "met" me
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:54:59 2001

Message:

From: Spy
To: UKVomitEater
Subject: make me mutherfucker
Date: Mon Dec 3 20:01:09 2001

Message:

From: Radio Europe
To: Missin'
Subject: Peace
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:50:20 2001

Message:
From: Missin' 
To: Eagle-Eye 
Subject: Palestinian Friends 
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:30:22 2001 
Message:

"Hey Eagle-Eye,
I really can't speak for them, but I truly doubt they'd ever go 
back.  All three are men in their 50's, one has already 
retired...he was a nuclear engineer at a power plant near 
here.   His family owned land in the Gaza 
strip...questionable 
as to whether they'll ever see it again.  His brother is a 
Urologist, and the 3rd owns an excellent Middle Eastern 
Restaurant that I frequent as often as I'm near there.

I think the BIG picture is still the same.  Not ALL Muslims are 
terrorists.  Not ALL Palestinians are terrorists.  Not all 
Israeli's are terrorists.  Just as not ALL American's are 
Skinheads.  I still maintain my view that there is great 
danger 
in lumping people into groups rather than taking them one 
by one 
and deciding whether or not you like them.  Another really 
good 
example is U.K Vices...the only Brit I've ever "met" online that 
I didn't like."



The point is, Missin' , that most of what people get to see 
from Muslims or Arabs are violence and terror...

Unless the so-called "silent majority" comes out and cleans 
things up, they too will be seen as such...

The picture we get over here is that peace is not the peace 
we would like to see, but more likely a "conditional" peace, a 
peace forced upon people by medevial methods of 
violence... In the name of... You guessed it...



From Europe, Radio Europe, Good Night

From: Noah
To: Ashraf
Subject: God bless you
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:13:36 2001

Message:
And God bless your wife too! Nobody is going to go over and 
get you because you are a genuinely good person and have 
a lot to offer the world. I know that you have a strong bias 
against Israeli's and from where you come, that is quite 
normal. I think that massacre is despicable and Sharon 
should indeed have to answer for it. We cannot go around 
having all kinds of double standards. The US has done a lot 
of crap in the past, but we are constantly having to answer 
for our actions. I believe that we are learning from mistakes 
and, ultimately, this country will become better and better. 
(parts of me believe otherwise, but that's because the whole 
world is going downhill). I still think Arafat has to answer for 
his part in this horrible impasse in the middle east, too. It's 
such an awful situation. Amongst these large groups of 
leaders and minions, there are hundreds of thousands of 
people who just want to be able to live without fear from their 
neighbors. Seeing the news today, I thought maybe this 
recent attack by Israel will show Arafat how little they are 
willing to budge, in the same way that the myriad terrorist 
attacks by Palestinian groups have shown Israel how little 
they are willing to budge. Good grief! what's wrong with 
living together? Who cares if an Israeli has a Palestinian 
next door neighbor? Why should the Palestinian care if there 
are Jews living near them? It's just so sad to see people 
completely unwilling to forgive or compromise. 
Admittedly, I can relate more to Israel's sentiment in that 
they are tired of having their civilians attacked. So I am 
somewhat supportive of the actions taken by Israel against 
the Palestinian forces. I do think that nothing good will come 
of it, but I understand their rage with the events of the 
weekend that punctuated years of random attacks. I really 
do hope that Israeli leaders who were responsible for the 
slaughter of hundreds, maybe thousands of innocent 
Palestinians, will be convicted for the act or acts. 
As for that post to "Everyone's GOD", I just find it very 
offensive when people claim to speak for God just because 
they are angry. I personally believe that God will return to 
Earth for judgement and I think I remember reading that in 
the Koran as well. Isn't there a lot written about the end days 
in Islam? Anyhow, I think God will come in God's time and I 
just have to be prepared for that day. 
I am so glad that we can discuss our commonalities and 
differences in peace. 

Once again, God bless you!

From: Radio Europe
To: Ugh Voices
Subject: your "gift3
Date: Mon Dec 3 20:04:34 2001

Message:
From: U.K. Voices 
To: SpyFinger 
Subject: Palestine 
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:46:58 2001 
Message:

Get out of here Spy.  You DO NOT have the right to speak of 
Palestine.  You did not create it and give it to the 
Israelites.  We did.  We wrote the Balfour Declaration and 
we ....
made the decisions.  Get your dirty little stinking hands out 
of 
our work.  When WE decide if We think it is being run as a 
proper state as WE intended, then WE will UNILATERALLY 
decide 
whether to let the Israelites keep it or not.  If WE want to 
give it back to the Palestinians, then WE will.  You have no 
say.


Radio's very sorry for you, but Israel has been a sovereign 
state for over 53 years now...

So if you think you have the right to judge them?

Show some respect for the Irish first, then speak...



From europe, Radio Europe....

From: om/cf
To: all
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:07:11 2001

Message:
Dont hear about Jesse "the Body" Ventura much these days, I'll
take a SEAL over a career politico every time though. Just the
common sense factor is enough for me.
 Uk Citizen welcome back, all clear on the perimeter?
 
 Ashraf, I understand your position with reguards to the rock
throwers. It still strikes me as an act of stupidity though.
We can be civil to each other although we'll never see eye to
eye on the Isreali/Palistinian issue as to which is the 
terrorist. I see the suicide bombers attack civilian buses and
shopping malls and food establishments, while I see Isreal
respond on what I view as a proper military target, Arafats
headquarters. That said, I still believe Arafat (a terrorist 
icon) has little to no control over the younger terrorists in
their groups but he proclaims himself as the leader of the
Palistinian cause so that makes him a proper target for a 
military response to the evil innocent Isreali citizens have
endured the past few days and years. I also believe the current
events in Isreal are connected to the overall plan of the
worldwide terrorist network of Assmama and others to use their
version of Islam to their advantage for their evil purpose.
 I give you credit for stepping up as, not enough have done, to
say, this is not Islam as I've learned it. Bush uses the word 
evil so much, in part to rally Americans (yes propoganda,
but there is no country, religion or any institution in the
world that doesnt use it), the other reason is its the truth.

From: North Carolina Gal
To: Spy
Date: Mon Dec 3 20:18:51 2001

Message:
Didn't mean to cause such a stir with my comment to Walter...I 
am fully aware of what he has posted on this board but I was 
responding to the one post  that he addressed to me.

From: Scripwriter
To: audience
Subject: War Story
Date: Sat Dec 1 08:33:29 2001

Message:
The story of 3 men

There are 2 men fighting one another, A is stronger than B. Each 
time they agree on settlement B's brothers who do not agree on 
the settlement will go and kill A's children. A is angry and 
retaliate by hitting B. So the fighting continue. B who is 
weaker brougt along his children to fight A and each time A 
tried to hid B but was obstructed by B's childred and so some of 
B children are also kill and B blame A for killing his children 
and show to the neighbour what A has done.

 Now C, who is very strong and influential came and tried to 
negotiate and find peace for them. A explain to C that he want 
peace but each time he agree on peace with B, B's brothers will 
come to his house to kill some of his children. So C pressure B 
to control his brothers all over the world, some good and some 
very bad. Whether he did or did not only they will know

So one day this very bad brother of B, blame C for not 
supporting B, when to C house and destroy the most beutiful 
corner of C's house and also to kill C's children, while doing 
that, they also kill C's guests, all around the world including 
some of B's family too. This make C very angry and vow to 
destroy the so called brother of B.

Everyone in the alphabet was shock and support C's retaliation 
to wibe out the so call brothers of B so as to find peace of 
everyone.

C again tried to find peace for A and B and ask them to 
negotiate. Just as it was about to come to an agreement, again 
this bad brother of B when straight to the living room of A and 
kill the children, who was enjoying peacefully in their own 
home. This make A very angry and retaliate, hitting B hard, in 
the face. C who have just met A agree this time on a retaliation.

story to be continued.....


From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: HeadLineNews
Date: Mon Dec 3 20:27:36 2001

Message:
12/03/2001: "The case for tough action against Iraq" 

It makes little difference whether you like your foreign policy 
driven mainly by ethics or by cynicism - the decisions made 
by the Western-led coalition at the end of the Gulf war in 
1991 were a catastrophe. 
Now, as the United States and its European allies argue 
over extending the 'war on terrorism' to Iraq, the doves are 
using the arguments they deployed 10 years ago. They were 
wrong then, and they are wrong now. 
In 1991, the Shia of the South and the Kurds of the North 
answered George Bush Snr's call to 'remove the dictator, 
Saddam Hussein,' by seizing cities and much of the country 
with breathtaking ease. 
Washington had already allowed Iraq's best troops, the 
Republican Guard, to exit the Kuwait battlefront unscathed. 
Now, far from providing the support the rebels had expected, 
the US told Iraq it had 'no objection' if it wished to fly its 
gunships. Saddam used these forces to massacre tens of 
thousands of civilians, while US planes studded the sky 
overhead. This was connivance in mass murder. 
The West had decided to stick with the devil it knew, and 
tried, through UN nuclear, biological and chemical weapons 
inspectors, to contain him. 
A decade later, the sequel unfolds. There is no evidence of 
Iraqi involvement in the atrocities of 11 September, say the 
doves, and therefore no legal basis for hostile action. (In 
fact, as The Observer reported earlier this month, there is 
more evidence of contact between Iraqi intelligence officers 
and the 19 hijackers than there is of their personal 
involvement with al Qaeda.) Iraq, it is claimed, is no longer a 
threat to the West or the Middle East. Attacking it would end 
Arab support for the anti-terrorist coalition, and risk a 
fundamentalist firestorm from Islamabad to the 
Mediterranean. 
These arguments are questionable. Saddam asserts that 
he no longer has an interest in developing nuclear, 
biological or chemical weapons. However, he made 
identical claims time and again before 1998, while taking 
steps to conceal vast stockpiles of biological agents and 
nerve gas, and a nuclear programme which was close to 
success. 
Meanwhile, there is clear evidence that Iraq has trained 
hundreds of terrorists in hijacking, sabotage and murder. 
How are these 'not a threat'? As for the coalition, while in 
1991 several Arab countries deployed troops, their support 
this time does seem more tenuous. The public pasting 
given to Blair by President Assad of Syria suggests its value 
is limited. 
In an article in Friday's Daily Mail , the academic Mark 
Almond described the thinking which underpins the Iraqi 
quietists' position. For our friends in Damascus, Riyadh and 
the Emirates, 'the overriding nightmare is that America 
would impose Western-style democracy on the region, 
starting with post-Saddam Iraq.' 
This classification of democracy as a 'nightmare' has 
precedents. For most of the Cold War, Latin America either 
languished under pro-Western, murderous fascist 
autocracies or endured insurgency from murderous 
pro-Western guerrillas. Democracy, the Western foreign 
policy experts argued, was too good for the Hispanics. 
Today, most of the continent is relatively democratic, with an 
absence of death squads and political prisons. 
We need to make an analogous paradigm shift in policy 
towards Iraq and the Islamic world. Democracy is not too 
good for Arabs and Muslims, either, and Iraq, with a long 
secular tradition, and a big, well-educated middle class, 
ought to be an ideal place to establish a bridgehead. 
Haltingly, step by step, its neighbour Iran is already moving 
of its own accord in the same direction. Making that shift 
helps to determine what we should do. The answer is not 
the military coup pursued with futility by the CIA throughout 
the 1990s; nor the replacing of one tyrant with another. Nor 
is it to pick a fight over the refusal to allow renewed 
weapons inspections, to bomb heavily yet again and then 
withdraw. It is to support democratic forces which already 
exist, in the shape of the Iraqi National Congress. 
The foreign policy Arabists have briefed the media that the 
INC is a disorganised, divided rabble. In fact, it is supported 
by the overwhelming majority of Iraq's liberals and 
intellectuals, and has become by far the best source of 
information on what is actually happening there. 
This support must and will include military force. And once 
committed, it must, unlike in 1991, be maintained. Last 
week, in a safe house in the Middle East, I spoke to a recent 
defector who had been very high in one of the organs of 
repression in Saddam's 'republic of fear'. 'If the Iraqi people 
realise that this time the West is seriously targeting the 
regime, even the supposedly most loyal security and military 
units will run away,' he said. 'No one wants a rerun of 1991. 
Just drop some bombs on his palaces so we know you 
mean business. It will take days.' There are occasions in 
history when the use of force is both right and sensible. This 
is one of them. 


David Rose argues that the West is paying the price for 
mistakes made 10 years ago 
War on Terrorism: Observer special 
Sunday December 2, 2001 
The Observer 




From: Walter
To: Spy
Subject: OK Spy I'll Explain
Date: Mon Dec 3 19:53:22 2001

Message:
OK.Yes,that post was from me.When I first came to this board,I 
saw a LOT of posts from people saying"Kill all the Muslims,Kill 
all the Muslims".It pissed me off.I was thinking at the time that 
I would show you guys what it would sound like from the"other 
side",so to speak.Did I do it because I'm a great 
humanitarian,and just wanted to"educate" you all?Fuck no,part of 
that's true,and part of it is the plain fact that I liked 
the idea of stirring up some shit in here.It was fun.But all it 
would've takin to get me out of here at the time was for one 
person to have said,"Someone I love died there".Good thing for me 
that didn't happen.I would have looked like shit in my own eyes 
for a long time.
 Yes,I did burn 2 CD's about the 9-11 attack.Yes,I have sold 
quite a few.I didn't do it for money.I showed them to a few 
people,and they wanted copies of their own.And on and on from 
there.If they were from an anti-American point of view,I wouldn't 
have sold so many,and I would have gotten my head busted also.But 
I do have a sick sense of humour,and can nearly always find 
something funny in morbid things.It has saved me at times from 
pain,and sometimes gotten me into trouble.
 I'm not asking for acceptance here,and I don't deserve apologies 
from anyone,some of the things I've said on this board were for 
the sole purpose of pissing people off.And a lot of them know 
that now,and some had a little fun slinging shit around with me.
 But to explain a lot of things,at least from my point of 
view,I'll make a few statements that are important to me:
 I AM sort of a disgruntled American,I think we're heading 
downhill in a lot of ways.
 I think Bush is a bad man,but the best person for the job in 
wartime.
 I think we should stop funding Israel temporarily,and watch how 
they act when"Big Brother" isn't standing behind them.
 About our war:This war isn't about Muslims;it's about an attack 
against America.
 It isn't about Evil or Good:its about people who attacked our 
country,and now must be defeated.
 Its not about freedom of all peace-loving peoples:The world 
hasn't been attacked;we have.These other countries are helping 
us,and they goddam well better.after all the times we've come to 
their aid when they needed us.
 And most important to me:This war is not funny or fun.The 
Taliban are not representatives of Afganistan,and the people have 
no choice in the matter,if they stand up for their rights like we 
do here,They get their heads blown off.
 We have been attacked.Now we must destroy our enemy and its 
supporters.Its an ugly fuckin job.And its going to be very costly 
in time,money,human lives,and human suffering.I have no doubt we 
will win,but the things we've seen in the last couple of months 
have changed everything.We will never be the same as what we 
were,ever again.

From: Noah
To: UK Voice
Subject: Darwin
Date: Mon Dec 3 21:06:38 2001

Message:
Hello, er..Oooohh OOooooH aaa aaAA AAAA! Metaphorically 
calling people who don't agree with you monkeys is pretty 
sad. I just think you're funny and am glad you came back 
and are "learning" to make more sense. I would love to hear 
your accent though. Americans love British accents and the 
way you write - it would be totally cool. 
I am curious as to why you are proclaiming your country as a 
despotic nation in that you can just go and do whatever you 
want with Israel because you helped place them back in 
their old land. Anyhow, I just found that a little hypocritical, 
but then - maybe you're just trying to make a point. To think 
that America is not already familiar to millions of people 
from all over the world by saying you need to introduce us to 
Europe is just silly. It's not like the US is some distant planet 
that noone can go to or from. We're just south of Canada 
and just north of Mexico...can't miss us! Anyway, even you 
have been here before! (pretty spooky place huh?)
Anyhow, any disdain I have had towards you is gone. I 
simply find you very amusing. Zap! time to clear out Israel, 
big momma Britain says "This land is our land!" Hee hee. 

Colonialism reigns on...

From: Noah
To: Walter
Subject: Thank you
Date: Mon Dec 3 21:36:38 2001

Message:
Hey Walter, I just want to say thank you for explaining 
yourself, even though you didn't have to (this is cyberspace, 
afterall). It took me a little while, but I finally understood your 
feelings. I think America might be in for some trouble, but I 
think in the scheme of things, it will cycle out like most 
electrical disturbances. The frequency is always changing, 
but things go up and down and the only constant is the 
coefficient of change (is it stupid to use physics analogies 
here?). As you can see, I am a person of faith and, even 
though to many it is naive, I believe that things will always 
work out for the glory of God. If half the world falls into the 
sea, I still think good can happen out of it. I could say not to 
worry, but I certainly might be wrong that there is nothing to 
worry about, so I'll just say that I'll pray for you and others 
who are unsettled (most of the country I guess), that things 
work out for you too. 

Thanks for sharing so much the past couple of days. 

Peace.

From: Spy
To: Walter
Subject: Okay
Date: Mon Dec 3 21:17:35 2001

Message:
I am glad you took the time to explain those things to me.
Very good post. I hope you understand that those people 
(christians, muslims, atheist, or whatever) that died that day
felt like people I knew. Maybe some of them were people I've 
met in my time. I'll probably never know.
Understand--that post of yours pissed me off BIG time. For 
no matter what bitches I have with this country, it is the 
ONLY country I wish to live in judging from what I've seen in 
my time.
I also served in the military, as many of my friends have 
also. War is Hell--but peace can only be maintained(as last 
resort) by muscle.
I have known for a long time that this country was going to 
see a day like 911---I actually thought it would be worst than 
what it was. I thank my GOD it wasn't--for I know there are 
those who wished it was.

I'll back off now---I had "fun" with you just by reciting things 
out of an auto repair manual with some artistic
liberties.Never a direct threat.
I'm not sure if you have any mental issues and I won't 
pursue the question. We most definitly have a different 
outlook on life.
I'll leave you alone now----
One thing you said in your post was "We will never be the 
same as what we were,ever again."
You are 100% right.

Good-bye----Spy


From: Missin'
To: U.K.Vices
Subject: Correct...Never Met..Never Will
Date: Mon Dec 3 22:20:59 2001

Message:
What a hoot!  I sure am glad that the majority of the people in 
your country don't think like you.  I think you should get all 
your cohorts who do think like you together, and go to Israel 
and take it back...just to show me that you can! hehehe!

From: Missin'
To: Walter
Subject: Thanks
Date: Mon Dec 3 22:30:03 2001

Message:
Walter,
Thanks for finally posting your real thoughts on the war.  I 
don't know why you decided to finally come out of your shell and 
talk, but I'm glad you did.  I agree with 100% of your above 
post.  It's nice to know where you stand.

From: Missin'
To: RadioEurope
Subject: Yes, But...
Date: Mon Dec 3 22:33:01 2001

Message:
Good Evening Radio Europe,
I understand what you are saying.  But, as I said to Eagle-Eye 
once before.  Ordinary peaceful people leading ordinary peaceful 
lives are not newsworthy...so, that's why you only ever see the 
bad.  The media only glorifies what sells newspapers...the 
uglier the better.  I've seen lots of Arabs and Iranians and 
Egyptians living in this country for years.  Most of them lead 
lives very similar to mine.  They go to work to make a living to 
provide the necessities of life to their children.  They are 
HERE because they can live lives of peace and prosperity 
here...something that would be much tougher in their own 
countries.  A certain percentage of the ones living here may be 
terrorist plants...but, I don't believe it's the majority.

From: Missin'
To: Noah
Subject: Did you save some Creme Brulee for me?
Date: Mon Dec 3 22:39:35 2001

Message:
Do you have your own recipe, or can you recommend a cookbook 
with a good one?  I love Creme Brulee, but don't get it often 
enough.  I did have some last week, but the waiter didn't heat 
the crust enough.

I don't remember (and I'm too tired to go back and look again) 
if it was you that mentioned the end times predicted in the 
Bible.  Was it?  In any case, being a Christian, I wanted to ask 
if you'd read "Left Behind"?  I've read most of the sequels to 
it too, and have found it an excellent way to help understand 
the Book of Revelations.  I'd like to go back and read them 
again now in light of all that is going on in the Middle East.  
If you haven't read them, I highly recommend that you get a copy 
of "Left Behind".  It's a study guide and a compelling story all 
in one.

From: Walter
To: All
Date: Mon Dec 3 22:42:19 2001

Message:
How Budweiser handles those who laughed at those who died on 11 
Sept 2001. 
Thought you'd like to know what happened in a town north of 
Bakersfield, California.


September 11th, a Budweiser employee was making a delivery to a 
convenience store in a town called McFarland. He knew of the 
tragedy that had occurred in New York. He entered the business to 
find two people whooping and hollering and cheering it up. It was 
obvious they were elated with what had happened earlier. The 
Budweiser employee went to his truck called his boss and told him 
of the very upsetting event. He didn't feel he could be in that 
store with those horrible people. His boss told him, "Do you 
think you could go in there long enough to pull every Budweiser 
product and item our beverage company sells 
there? We'll never deliver to them again." The employee walked 
in, proceeded to pull every single product his beverage company 
provided and left. He told them never to 
bother and call for a delivery again. 

From: Missin'
To: Walter
Subject: Kewl!
Date: Mon Dec 3 23:33:52 2001

Message:
Way to go, Budweiser!

From: Spy
To: UK Voices
Subject: You are completly 100% correct
Date: Mon Dec 3 23:33:11 2001

Message:
I am giving you the Finger.    So I guess you could call it 
SpyFinger.
But let me make it easy for you---FUCK YOU and the 
Liverpool whore that bore you and your doggie fuckin'
wife and three lovely doggie fuckin' pups--not to mention the 
three doggie fuckin' still borns that didn't have ta put up with 
your anti-freedom shit.
Why don't you dig up Aleister Crowley"s corspe and crawl 
back up his whithered asshole from whince you came?

From: Justice
To: Walter
Date: Tue Dec 4 00:06:41 2001

Message:
Good post about how you really feel.  Glad to see you expressing 
your true self.  Hope to hear more from you and your opinions 
now that we truly know where you stand.

From: om/cf
To: Walter
Subject: Bud, Bud, Bud .......weiser
Date: Mon Dec 3 23:49:13 2001

Message:
This buds not for you! A Quickee Mart, imagine that. Tax free
Arabs no doubt with a Currency Exchange and Smoke Shop down
the street in negotiations with overseas relatives on a deal
for the business ownership when their tax free ride is over.
 The delivery man missed his chance to be a hero when he didnt
fire his truck up, smash it into the Quickee Mart, kill the
fuckheads, then practice "I dont know what happened, the
accelerator must have stuck or something". Im sure on that day
he would be released without further questioning and recieve
a nice bonus check from his employer.

From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: InTheNews
Date: Tue Dec 4 00:21:03 2001

Message:
12/03/2001 : "Secret US Plan for Iraq War" 

America intends to depose Saddam Hussein by giving 
armed support to Iraqi opposition forces across the country, 
The Observer has learnt. 
President George W. Bush has ordered the CIA and his 
senior military commanders to draw up detailed plans for a 
military operation that could begin within months. 

The plan, opposed by Tony Blair and other European Union 
leaders, threatens to blow apart the increasingly shaky 
international consensus behind the US-led 'war on 
terrorism'. 

It envisages a combined operation with US bombers 
targeting key military installations while US forces assist 
opposition groups in the North and South of the country in a 
stage-managed uprising. One version of the plan would 
have US forces fighting on the ground. 

Despite US suspicions of Iraqi involvement in the 11 
September attacks, the trigger for any attack, sources say, 
would be the anticipated refusal of Iraq to resubmit to 
inspections for weapons of mass destruction under the 
United Nations sanctions imposed after the Gulf war. 

According to the sources, the planning is being undertaken 
under the auspices of a the US Central Command at McDill 
air force base in Tampa, Florida, commanded by General 
Tommy Franks, who is leading the war against Afghanistan. 

Another key player is understood to be former CIA director 
James Woolsey. Sources say Woolsey was sent to London 
by the hawkish Deputy Defense Secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, 
soon after 11 September to ask Iraqi opposition groups if 
they would participate in an uprising if there was US military 
support. 

The New York Times yesterday quoted a senior 
administration official who admitted that Bush's aides were 
looking at options that involved strengthening groups that 
opposed Saddam. Richard Armitage, the Deputy Secretary 
of State, said that action against Iraq was not imminent, but 
would come at a 'place and time of our choosing'. 

Washington has been told by its allies that evidence it has 
presented of an Iraqi link to 11 September is at best 
circumstantial. However, US proponents of extending the 
war believe they can make the case for hitting Saddam's 
regime over its plan to produce weapons of mass 
destruction. 

A European diplomat said last week: 'In the past week the 
Americans have shut up about Iraqi links to 11 September 
and have been talking a lot more about their weapons 
program.' 

The US is believed to be planning to exploit existing UN 
resolutions on Iraqi weapons programs to set the action off. 

Under the pre-existing 'red lines' for military action against 
Iraq - set down by Washington and London after the Gulf 
War - evidence of any credible threat from weapons of mass 
destruction would be regarded as sufficient to launch 
military strikes along the lines of Operation Desert Fox in 
1998, when allied planes made large-scale strikes against 
suspected Iraqi weapons complexes. 

Bush is said to have issued instructions about the 
proposals, which are now at a detailed stage, to his 
Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, three weeks ago. But 
Pentagon sources say that a plan for attacking Iraq was 
developed by the time Bush's order was sent to the 
Pentagon, drawn up by Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, chairman 
of the joint chiefs General Richard Myers, and Franks. 

The plan is to work with a combination of three political 
forces: Kurdish rebels in the north of Iraq, radical Sunni 
Muslim groups in and around Baghdad, and, most 
controversially, the Shia opposition in the south. 

The most adventurous ingredient in the anti-Iraqi proposal 
is the use of US ground troops, Pentagon sources say. 
'Significant numbers' of ground troops could also be called 
on in the early stages of any rebellion to guard oil fields 
around the Shia port of Basra in southern Iraq.

by Peter Beaumont, Ed Vulliamy and Paul Beaver
Source:Observer of London 




From: The hell with America
To: Afghans
Date: Fri Sep 14 17:19:53 2001

Message:
Hi fellow Afghans!
In these days when foreign state terrorist forces, in their so 
called  war against terrorism  cowardly bomb and slaughter our 
innocent defenseless civilians and destroy our nation s 
infrastructure which belongs to Afghan people and does not 
belong to foreign terrorists and American government alliance 
the taliban terroist band, some Afghan groups are gathering in 
the German city of Bonn.  They want to put aside their 
deferences and bring peace and prosperity to Afghanistan. 
Amongst them, there are people who call themselves  Pashtoon 
Representatives , but who are these so called  Pashtoon 
Representatives ?  These people are the former King Zahir s 
corrupt bureaucrats and servants (former royal regime ministers, 
members of parliament, their sons and relatives and royal family 
friends).  These self declared  Pashtoon Representatives  are 
not true and legitimate Pashtoon representatives.  They should 
be called the King s representatives.  In relation with Afghan 
people, they lost their representation in this kind of a 
gathering a long time ago.  They are ordinary people like you 
and I, if they want to serve the Afghan people, they can go to 
Afghanistan to offer their services to the people and 
participate in rebuilding Afghanistan.  However they don t do 
so. In their minds, they are born to govern and ride on people s 
necks.  They again want to impose themselves onto our people and 
regain what they have lost in 1973 and 1978.  
How does the king and his supporters, fellow bureaucrats can 
claim Pashtoon representation, when most of them don t even 
speak the Pashtoo language.  They were overthrown and toppled in 
1973 and 1978, as a result of heroic uprises of patriotic and 
revolutionary armed forces of Afghanistan, mostly by educated 
and progressive Pashtoon officers.  How can they claim 
representation when most of them left the people of Afghanistan 
in a bloody undeclared war of foreign intelligent services 
against the people of Afghanistan.  They have enjoyed 27 years 
living in Western countries and accepted foreign countries  
citizenship.  Based on Afghanistan s constitutions foreign 
citizens cannot represent anyone in any type of gathering for 
the decision making affairs of Afghanistan.
The international community must know that today the majority of 
people in the resistance movements in Afghanistan does not 
support Zahir Shah and his fellow bureaucrats  leadership.  
Their leadership in the past have left our people in poverty, 
illiteracy and disease.  They have misused millions of foreign 
aid to Afghanistan.  It would be unjust if they participate in 
power-sharing in the future government of Afghanistan.  Now it 
is not secret that the King s father, Nadir Shah was imposed to 
the Afghan people by British colonizers.  The same way if we let 
it happen, King Zahir and his supporters (traders of 
Afghanistan), who called for occupation of foreign troops in 
Afghanistan, will be installed by Anglo-American and 
international neocolonizers (transnationals). Transnationals in 
the last decade, have practiced in the use of UN undercover 
operations for occupation of free and sovereign nations, for 
instance the occupation of the Balkans, central Asia and 
Afghanistan.  In this case, I would like to warn all patriotic 
forces in Afghanistan that if the King s family and supports 
regain power, they will disarm, assassinate or put in jail all 
of Afghanistan s patriots and freedom lovers. Once foreign 
troops occupy Afghanistan it will be hard to get them out and 
their occupation of our land will last a long time because of 
the advanced technology they posses.  I would like all of you to 
say NO TO BOMBING INNOCENT PEOPLE. NO TO ZAHIR SHAH AND HIS 
GROUP. NO TO FOREIGN TROOPS IN AFGHANISTAN.

From: Noah
To: Missin'
Subject: Hey there
Date: Tue Dec 4 00:14:09 2001

Message:
Hi Missin' Sorry I'm all out of the Creme Brulee. It's actually a 
lot easier to make than I thought. The more fat in it, the 
easier it is to make it the right texture. Just for fun I'll post the 
recipe:
2 cups heavy cream
1/2 cup sugar
8 large egg yolks (or 2 whole eggs and 3 yolks)
3/4 teaspon vanilla (or 1 tablespoon grand marnier)

beat eggs with the sugar. then heat the cream barely to a 
simmer. slowly add the cream to the egg mixture, stirring 
constantly. once it is smooth, pour the mixture through a fine 
sieve into a container with a pour spout. stir in alcohol of 
your choice (vanilla, grand marnier, any other liquor that 
sounds good will work). Pour mixture into 6-6 ounce custard 
cups. Fill a baking pan with ~1 inch of water, set cups in 
bath and bake at 250 deg. F for about 1 hour and 15 min. 
They're done when you bump the dish and it still jiggles a bit 
in the center. 

Well, that was fun. I hope you are able to enjoy. And only 40 
grams of fat per serving! Yummmmm.

Anhow, I actually have read all the "Left Behind" Books. They 
do a pretty good job of putting together bits of prophecy from 
Daniel, Revelation, the Gospels and several other Prophets. 
I don't know think things will be quite like in the book, but for 
all I know, they might be exactly like it :-). What do I know, I'm 
only human. I just know that we need to be ready because 
nobody knows the day or the hour. I still have not read the 
new book, but I am looking forward to it. Some of it I find a 
little bit cheesey, if only because the writers are ultra 
right-wing. Most of it is wonderfully exciting and keeps one 
mindful of things beyond our understanding. 

Matt. 24:6 - "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but 
see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, 
but the end is still to come."

From: N
To: Missun'
Subject: oops
Date: Tue Dec 4 00:38:41 2001

Message:
Forgot to tell you to take the custards out of the bath when 
they are done and chill them in the fridge for at least 8 
hours, covered with plastic wrap. They can be chilled for up 
to 2, maybe 3 days. After they are done chilling, blot off the 
condensed water on the tops and sprinkle some raw sugar 
in a thin even layer on top. using a propane torch, carefully 
melt and brown the sugar (careful not to overdo it or it'll taste 
like charcoal). Then you can serve them while the crust is 
still warm. enjoy!

From: theE.S.D.
To: RadioEurope
Subject: TeamEfforts
Date: Tue Dec 4 00:43:59 2001

Message:
ThankYou

From: theE.S.D.
To: RadioEurope
Subject: p.s.
Date: Tue Dec 4 00:49:21 2001

Message:
and God bless you and yours

From: Radio Europe
To: Scriptwriter, Audience
Subject: Three Men
Date: Tue Dec 4 02:33:07 2001

Message:
Three Men are looking down from a tower, a, American , an 
Israeli and an Arab.

"My god", goes the American, "this is high",

"God protects me", goes the Arab.

"Protcects you?" goes the Israeli, "what about us?".

"Peace be upon us" goes the Arab, as he pushes the Israeli 
from the tower.

A hand reaches from the clouds and gently puts the Isreali 
down.

Then the American pushes the Arab from the tower, going 
"now, peace be on us".

A hand reaches fromp the clouds and smashes the Arab to 
the ground.

Climbing all the way back down, the American tries to 
comprehend and goes "why'sit have to be us all the time?"

A finger comes from the skies as a voice thunders: "now get 
your ass down, you gotta job to do". 


From: Ashraf
To: Walter & Spy..
Subject: ...
Date: Tue Dec 4 03:40:47 2001

Message:
Congratulations on the peace deal..  

;)

Peace..

From:
To: !
Date: Tue Dec 4 06:34:40 2001

Message:
You posted:

And Arafat is a clown, dancing for Islamist extremists, Radio 
Europe...

My question is: Then what's Sharon..? An innocent lamp being 
chased by the savage, raping,  stone-throwing, cold-blood 
murdering Palestinians.. right? If you think so, then you are 
not much different either...

Gimmi a break.. 

pleeeeeeease..!!

From: Ashraf
To: Radio Europe..
Subject: ...
Date: Tue Dec 4 06:51:49 2001

Message:
You posted:

And Arafat is a clown, dancing for Islamist extremists, Radio 
Europe...

My question is: Then what's Sharon..? An innocent lamp being 
chased by the savage, raping,  stone-throwing, cold-blood 
murdering Palestinians.. right? If you think so, then you are 
not much different either...

Gimmi a break.. 

pleeeeeeease..!!
 

From: Ashraf
To: Spy..
Subject: ...
Date: Tue Dec 4 06:52:42 2001

Message:
Learn to respect others' religions, may be then you will be 
worthy of others' respect too.. It is all a part of growing up.. 
so please, grow up..

Peace.. 

From: Justice
To: The hell with America
Subject: Middle East
Date: Tue Dec 4 08:05:58 2001

Message:
Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat called Sharon's 
statement a declaration of war. "He is saying, 'War, war, war 
now, peace later.' I think he is making the mistake of his 
life," said Erakat, WHO CALLED ON THE UNITED STATES AND EUROPEAN 
LEADERS to "stop Sharon." 

If the Middle East could handle it's own affairs and quit asking 
us to intervene then maybe we wouldn't have to be over there in 
the first place and you could put any government you would like 
into place.

From: Spy
To: Ashraf
Date: Tue Dec 4 08:32:19 2001

Message:
If you really listen Ashraf---I'M SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE 
WALKING INTO CIVILIAN POPULATIONS WITH BOOBY 
TRAPS UP THEIR ASS AND SAYING IT'S THE WILL OF 
GOD---MAYBE THEN I'LL RESPECT THEM !!!!!!!!!!!WHEN 
THEY CEASE THEIR SATANIC ACTIVITIES IN THE NAME OF 
GOD.

As far as me needing your respect-------

From: Spy
To: Ashraf
Date: Tue Dec 4 08:50:06 2001

Message:
You happen to be one of those people who have threaten 
peoples lifes and well being just because they don't like or 
except your religion.

Oh yeah--give me somemore conditional peace----

From: Spy
To: Ashraf
Date: Tue Dec 4 08:59:13 2001

Message:
I know this one woman who worked for a muslim family 
bussiness here in the states.They fired her for becoming 
pregnant.She would take them to the labor board (for what 
they did is illegal) but she's afraid of them flying a plane into 
her house.

Just another little slice of "peace"

From: Missin'
To: Justice
Subject: Israel
Date: Tue Dec 4 08:58:40 2001

Message:
It seems as though Sharon feels that we have provided him a 
mandate to openly declare war on the Palestinians now.  After 
all, the Palestinian terror groups are JUST like the guys we're 
after.  And, maybe he's right to do so.  I read again last night 
where Arafat had picked up 110 members of the Hamas group, but 
none of the people in custody were on the list that Israel had 
provided of known terrorists.  I think our powers that be are 
taking the right approach to this one too, for now.  They seem 
to be saying to Sharon "We understand...we are not condoning or 
supporting you...but we understand your actions and won't 
condemn you for them either."

From: Missin'
To: Noah
Subject: Excellent!
Date: Tue Dec 4 09:51:14 2001

Message:
Hey Noah,
I definitly plan to try out your recipe! The one I saw before 
called for a double boiler...and looked way complicated.  Just 
one more question...where do you get the little propane torches?

End times...the thing I most hope is real about the end time 
predictions?  I hope the believers are raptured before all hell 
breaks loose.  That alone is worth anything and everything I do 
for Christ.  Perhaps that's the reason we are told to not worry?

From: Everyman
To: All
Date: Tue Dec 4 11:28:32 2001

Message:
Interesting to note:  Ariel Sharon was born in Palestine & 
Arafat was born in Jerusalem...


Arafat is a terrorist

'Palestinian leader Yassir Arafat is a man who has only partly 
managed to step from guerilla leader to head of state. 
Corruption, lack of transparency and absence of rule of law 
reign in his "empire". Not only Hamas and Hizbollah are out of 
his control, even his own Fatah does not always seem to follow 
Arafat.'

'Yasser Arafat was born in Jerusalem in 1929 as Mohammed Abdal 
Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husaini, the son of a wealthy textile 
trader. Already as a teenager, he fought against the British 
mandatory forces. In 1951, Arafat began to study civil 
engineering at the University of Cairo, Egypt. He also became a 
bomb expert. From 1952 to 1956, he presided over the League of 
Palestinian Students. In 1956, he joined the Egyptian Army as 
the reserve officer in the war against France, Great Britain and 
Israel. From 1957 to 1965, Arafat lived in Kuwait, where he 
worked as a construction engineer. There, in 1959, he was a co-
founder of the Palestinian movement Al Fatah, the Palestine 
liberation movement and, later, was declared its spokesman. In 
1968, Arafat joined the PLO, founded in 1964, and was elected 
its chairman. He suffered a setback in 1970/71, when his attempt 
to overthrow Jordan's King Hussein failed. In 1973, Arafat 
became Commander in Chief of the forces of the Palestinian 
Revolution. Among the violent actions committed by Palestinian 
groups was the assassination of members of the Israeli Olympic 
team in Munich in 1972 by the newly founded organization "Black 
September". Other setbacks like the loss of his power base in 
Lebanon led Arafat in 1985 to try to make peace with Jordan's 
King Hussein, with the US as a mediator. But the attempts 
failed. Arafat was also involved in the terrorist attack on the 
luxury liner "Achille Lauro" which further undermined his 
credibility. In 1986, King Hussein ended the collaboration with 
the PLO and closed down all Al Fatah's offices in Jordan. At the 
end of 1987, the first Intifada began. In 1988, Arafat 
proclaimed in the name of the exiled Palestinian Parliament in 
Algiers the "State of Palestine". At the same time, the 
Palestinian National Council officially renounced terror as a 
means to pursue its objectives.' 

www.cosmopolis.ch/english/cosmo14/arielsharon.htm+sharon,+israel&
hl=en

From: Missin'
To: E.S.D.
Subject: Sunday Times
Date: Tue Dec 4 11:45:45 2001

Message:
Thank you so much for upping that.  It helps me better 
understand where all the conflict began.

From: EagleEye
To: ALL
Subject: daily Sodommy Hinsane Update
Date: Tue Dec 4 12:39:50 2001

Message:
Yes ... a cut and paste ...........


Special to World Tribune.com
MIDDLE EAST NEWSLINE
Tuesday, December 4, 2001
NICOSIA   For the first time, Iraq has specifically threatened 
Israel with retaliation for any U.S.-led campaign against the 
regime of President Saddam Hussein.

A senior Iraqi diplomat said Saddam has seven million combatants 
called the Quds Army. The diplomat said Iraq would "swallow 
Israel up" if his country is attacked.

"The Palestinian cause and liberation of Jerusalem as well as 
campaign against Israel is a fundamental issue for Iraq, just 
like many other Islamic states," Iraqi charge d'affaires in 
Teheran Abdul Sattar Izzeddin Rawi said. The warning came hours 
after Iraqi President Saddam Hussein convened his defense chiefs 
on late Sunday. The Iraqi News Agency said the meeting focused 
on Iraqi preparations for any U.S.-led war against Baghdad.

Last week, Iraqi Foreign Minister Naji Sabri suggested that Iraq 
would target Israel. But Sabri did not mention Israel by name. 
On Monday, Deputy Prime Minister Tareq Aziz said Iraq is 
prepared for a ground war should the United States attack but 
did not threaten Israel.

At the same time, Rawi told the official Iranian news agency 
IRNA that Saddam has sent three messages to the United States 
and its European allies. The messages warned against any attack 
on Baghdad.

The diplomat said Kurds in northern Iraq would suffer greatly if 
they cooperate in any U.S.-led effort to topple Saddam. For a 
decade, the Kurds have maintained self-rule in the north.

Rawi warned that the United States would not achieve anything in 
an attack on Iraq. He reiterated Iraq's refusal to allow the 
return of United Nations weapons inspectors in his country. 


From:
To:
Date: Tue Dec 4 12:48:14 2001

Message:
"Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat called Sharon's 
statement a declaration of war. "He is saying, 'War, war, war 
now, peace later.' I think he is making the mistake of his 
life," said Erakat, WHO CALLED ON THE UNITED STATES AND EUROPEAN 
LEADERS to "stop Sharon." 

Stay out, Stay Out, Stay out ...... Step In, Step In, Step 
In ...... give us guns and bombs .... take away theirs ...... Go 
away, come back, Fuck Off, Help Help Help .....

Hey Saeb .... Go FUCK yourself asshole!  All we ever get from 
you fucks as a thanks is Bombs, Dead people and planes into 
buildings.  You have the arrogance to ask for our intervention 
after your dance in the streets 9/11/01.  You made your deals 
and made your bed - sweet dreams.

From: EagleEye
To: ALL
Subject: Above was me - ooops!
Date: Tue Dec 4 12:53:06 2001

Message:

From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: InTheNews
Date: Tue Dec 4 13:12:17 2001

Message:
12/04/2001 : "Graham: Iraq Must Be Next Target" 

Upstate U.S. Rep. Lindsey Graham said Sunday that 
standing up to Iraq should be the next step in the war on 
terrorism.
Graham laid out his proposal for dealing with Iraqi dictator 
Saddam Hussein at a party in Anderson honoring the 
families of national guardsmen who have been called to 
duty.
"As long as Saddam Hussein is in power, your families will 
never be secure," Graham told the audience. "The UN 
should go back into Iraq immediately and re-establish 
those weapons inspections."
Graham's Third Congressional District encompasses 
Anderson.
Iraq should be searched for evidence of nuclear, biological 
and chemical weapons.
Graham's plan would let the president take whatever action 
he feels is necessary if Iraq does not let UN weapons 
inspectors back into the country. He said he is confident that 
his proposal will be approved by Congress.
Almost three weeks ago members of the 263rd Army Air 
Missile Defense Command of the South Carolina National 
Guard left for training in Texas.
After their training, they'll go wherever they are needed for 
homeland security.
Graham warned the guardsmen's families that the fight 
against terrorism won't be over soon.
One guardsman's wife says that she misses her husband, 
but that she understands.
"He's doing what he's got to do for our nation, so I'm proud 
of him," she said.

Source:Yahoo News 

============================

12/04/2001 : "Iraq, Somalia will be the US next target" 

The British daily the " Observer" said in its Sunday's issue 
quoting European sources as confirming that the US is 
planning to strike Iraq and then topple the regime of 
Saddam Hussein through supporting the Iraqi opposition 
militarily and this will be in the context of the second phase 
of the anti- terrorism campaign.
The European sources stressed that the motive for 
launching the American attack will be Saddam Hussein's 
rejection to accept UN inspectors to inspect the Iraqi military 
arsenals, rather than Washington's doubts on Iraq's links to 
the attacks at New York and Washington.
On the other hand, the British daily " Sunday telegraph " 
issued on Sunday said that the US asked Britain for help in 
preparing for a military interference in Somalia and this will 
be in the context of the next phase of the international 
campaign against terrorism. The Monte Carlo radio 
reported.

Source:Regional-USA, Politics, 12/3/2001 

===========================




From: A THOUGHTFUL PERSON
To: muslims
Subject: think proper
Date: Sun Sep 30 17:26:34 2001

Message:
TO ALL THE MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD
PLEASE HELP YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN AFGAHNISTAN.
AMERICA SHOULD SHUT THE HELL UP AND SHOULD THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY 
HAVE DONE TO OTHER COUNTRIES BEFORE THEY BOMB OTHER PLACES.THEY 
SHOULD GET SOME  PROOF THAT IT IS OSAMA BIN LADIN.I KNOW IT WAS 
WRONG WHAT HAPPENED TO THE WORLD TRADE CENTRE, BUT WHAT IS THE 
POINT OF KILLLING CIVILLIANS IN AFGAHNISTAN. THEY ARE NOT 
GETTING ANYTHING OUT OF BOMBING AFGAHNISTAN BECAUSE THERE ISN'T 
ANYTHING THERE ANYWAY.
AMERICA SHOULD  STOP BOMBING AFGAHNISTAN AND SHOULD THINK WHAT 
THEY HAVE DONE TO OTHER COUNTRIES.
I AM ASKING THE MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD TO THINK ABOUT IT AND 
HELP THERE BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN AFGAHNISTAN.

From: Walter
To: A Thoughtful Person
Date: Tue Dec 4 14:24:02 2001

Message:
OK.What do YOU think should be done to help them?

From: EagleEye
To: A Thought"less" Person.
Subject: Get a mirror .................
Date: Tue Dec 4 14:39:48 2001

Message:
"AMERICA SHOULD  STOP BOMBING AFGAHNISTAN AND SHOULD THINK WHAT 
THEY HAVE DONE TO OTHER COUNTRIES."

Muslims should stop whining and think of what they have done to 
other countries...... first.

Indonesia, Afghanistan, Palastine, Isreal, Pakistan, India ......

From: U.K.Citizen
To: U.K.Voices
Subject: For the record.
Date: Tue Dec 4 11:47:35 2001

Message:
I post this to you, baring in mind a post sent, by you, 
entitled "Further evidence of American oppression."

So far, since your arrival on this board, you seem to openly 
mock many of the American contributors to this board, and seek 
to patronise and insult those who have pro-American views. You 
have not apologised to any, for doing so, which in itself is 
lacking in courage and humility, and yet you demand that we all 
repect your opinion. Quite bizzare. Can you not see this?

As you ignored my questions before, I shall therefore have to 
repeat them and also offer you a few others.


What did you possibly hope to achieve, posting on this board in 
the insulting manner that you have done thus far?

Why did you not have, at the very least, the basic courage to 
put your viewpoints honestly and in a grown up and courteous 
way, the very first time you posted? It seems to me you already 
had 'your own eyes' blinkered, and had already drawn your own 
conclusions. Conclusions, I assume you do not wish to deviate 
from, and yet again quite bizzarly, you expect all others to 
agree with you.

You, and the company you work for presumably has dealings in 
America, and yet you are contemptuous of the U.S.nationals on 
this board. If you feel that way, why do you continue to work 
for this company?

If your distrust of the American press and political 
administration is so vehemant, why in that case visit San 
Fransisco for instance? That's in America if you hadn't noticed.
Internet access allows access to many more information sources, 
whether they be American or not. A variety of sources from the 
British press have been used by those here as sources of 
reference, long before you arrived. 

If you do not use Microsoft, then in that case which system DO 
you use,...your own perhaps? You again, claim to be a rather 
knowledgable computer specialist. Then surely you and those you 
know who have computer programming skills can provide an 
alternative. Have you started that alternative O.S. yet? We're 
all waiting.

Did you really think you'd get away with misrepresenting public 
opinion in the United Kingdom, like misrepresenting the numbers 
attending that 'peace rally'. Refer to my prior post to you on 
the matter. Give Mr Whale a call, I'm sure he'd love to hear 
from you. I know I'd love to listen. Do you not think ALL of us 
on this board do not want a peaceful world? Do you really think 
wives, husbands and parents would let there loved ones go off to 
war if it wasn't to stop a group of maniacs hell bent on 
ultimately bringing down the world economy, from which you 
benefit? Remember...no more quick visits to the video store and 
picking up all those American movies you pretend not to 
watch...no more trips to the thea-tar.
   
This site is entitled as you are well aware, the 4th Plane. We 
now know from flight recorder data, that it's ultimate 
destination was not Camp David, but the 3-Mile Island Nuclear 
facility. If your plane to San Fransisco had been diverted for 
this purpose, how would your anti-Amercian setiments hold up if 
YOUR life was at stake? Would you sir, instead of confronting 
the suicide hyjackers simply have gone into some deep and 
earnest discussions with them about the validity of their anti-
American cause as the now unhindered airliner ploughed into the 
said facility, in its aim of causing nuclear fallout on a 
gigantic scale? How also, does that fit it with your passionate 
environmental issues? 

I take it from what I've seen so far, that you will only stick 
to the principles that you do not have suffer for.

I have not forgotten your insulting insinuation towards me. I 
thought you were trying to set the good example. Behave.
     

Should you not attempt to answer any of these qusetions, those 
of us with pro-American views on this board will therefore have 
no choice but to draw our own conclusions and respond to you in 
the contemptuous manner in which you announced your arrival 
here. For someone who proports to have a life sir, you are 
spending increasingly too much time of it here for the liking of 
the vast majority of us. In the mere act of accessing this 
board, I guess most of your principles are therefore expendable.



All this, and you call somebody else...a hypocrite.  

   

From: U.K.Citizen
To: Open mind/closed fist
Subject: Sports
Date: Tue Dec 4 15:09:43 2001

Message:
I took a rather wide cirle walking that perimeter, I think 
EagleEye calls it..lurkin'..

..the Cricket phrase you may be searching for is..stepping up to 
the crease and playing the deliveries with a 'straight bat'.

From: Radio Europe
To: a thoughful person, muslims around the world
Subject: (quote) "how to help there brothers and sisters"
Date: Tue Dec 4 14:40:26 2001

Message:
For one thing, tell your armed "brothers" in Afghanistan to 
stay out of towns and villages.  

And to no longer store ammunition in and around hospitals, 
schools and help-agencies...

Why -if Allah is so "with them"-don't they step out in the open 
instead? 

Oh, and while you're at it, you should maybe warn your 
brothers and sisters in Iraq to get ready for the same tactics 
from their  leader, you know the one travelling the world in 
his endless pursuit of  peace and co-operation.

The one that blames the West for the poverty  in his country
while investing billions in a huge army and weapons..

Their poor children may be going to school right on top of a 
chemical storage bunker. 

The one that has nothing to hide and keeps wondering why 
his poor people got bombed. 
And tells his people that the West doesn't like them, 
because the West is degenerated and now their evil reign is 
coming to an end.

Well Thoughtfull Person, there seems to be too much shit 
going on in most of the countries your brothers and sisters 
live in.

And if your poor brothers and sisters keep believing the 
West hates THEM instead of the regimes crushing them, 
than that's really too bad.

Only a few decades ago, Spain was still controlled by 
Franco (you know, Hitlers' friend), Greece by a military 
regime like Portugal, by the way.
All that has ended now...

Do you think your brothers and sisters are ready for 
democracy, yet?
It seems not, because they keep producing brothers that 
blindly follow the very dickhead regimes they live under into 
evil ,terror and eventually death . 

They are lied to daily, endlessly and as long as they believe 
these doctrines they will be in great danger.
For as long as they don't get rid of their leaders, someone 
else will.

America, right now, should do anything but think of what it 
has done to other countries.

America should only think of the things that have been done 
to it, recently and act accordingly, as it is...
It more than deserves all the help it can get in doing so.

Furthermore, Thoughtful Person, a war was declared to 
America, and any country that supports it, remember.

We don't think the guilt of Osama is an issue, anymore.


Lastly,  Thoughtful Person, some personal questions....

Why cannot a muslim criticise another muslim?

Can a muslim NEVER be wrong?

Can he only be wrong if he does wrong to another muslim?

Why don't muslims EVER criticise the crimes done by their 
brothers that are terrorists without digging up old stories?

Why don't they EVER criticise their regimes?

You see, since we are not part of a death cult, we believe 
there can be NO justification for terror acts, NONE.



From Europe, this was Radio Europe...





From: Al-Jazeera
To: The World
Date: Fri Sep 14 17:19:53 2001

Message:
AFGHANISTAN: The following information has been provided by 
Mujahid Sheikh Abu Khalid Abdullah Al-Waleed as a challenge for 
the Pentagon to refute it. He said that the Mujahideen possess 
all the necessary proof and evidence for the information given 
here, which will be publicised if Allah makes it possible. It is 
one of the series of authentic news reports from Afghanistan. 

On Monday 26 November 2001 (10 Ramadan 1422), Sheikh Abu Khalid 
Abdullah Al- Waleed conducted an interview with the husband of 
the martyred sister, after the Isha Prayer. There was a convoy 
that was getting ready to depart areas surrounding Kunduz, so 
the brother of the martyred sister suggested that they wait 
until the Americans arrived. The brother and sister had in their 
possessions passports whose names suggested that they were Jews 
of British nationality. They planned to inform the enemy troops 
that were not Mujahideen, in order to save themselves from being 
killed or captured. When they initially arrived in Mazar-i-
Sharif, they were able to successfully protect themselves by 
using this cover story. However, they were advised not to leave 
without weapons with which they could defend themselves if the 
situation demanded it. However, the husband suggested to his 
brother-in-law that instead of carrying weapons, he should give 
some explosives to his wife which she can detonate if they are 
captured, thus killing the enemy soldiers along with them. Thus 
they did as they had planned and the sister strapped a belt of 
explosives around her waist. 

The brother and sister thus went to the positions of the Shiite 
Hizbi-Wahdah faction and General Dostum's forces. Since they 
were on foot, the enemy fired upon them and they then jumped to 
the floor and did not return fire. When the enemy saw that they 
were not acting in a hostile manner, one enemy soldier 
approached them and they addressed him in English. The soldier 
thus shouted out to those behind him: "Hold your fire, these are 
Americans." They then picked up the brother and sister and took 
them in their jeep into Mazar- i-Sharif where they found an 
American soldier. The American soldier asked them what they were 
doing in an area between Kunduz and Mazar-i-Sharif where they 
had captured many prisoners. The brother replied that they were 
aid workers for Oxfam. He praised Allah when the American 
soldier believed them, not knowing that Oxfam had ceased 
operations in Afghanistan a long time ago! However, he informed 
them that he would have to verify their credentials by taking 
them to his headquarters in Kabul, where hopefully everything 
could be quickly sorted out. He thus arranged a special car with 
guards to take them to Kabul. 

As the brother managed to get a few quiet moments with his 
sister, he rehearsed the plan with her. He told her that there 
were no chance that they could return to either the Mujahideen 
or the Taliban positions; and nor could they wait until they 
arrived at Kabul since they would be exposed there. They sat in 
a truck filled with Russians and accompanied by four armed 
Shiite Hizbi-Wahdah fighters. In the cabin were two Americans. 
The brother brought his face closer to the noble face of his 
sister and she whispered to him, "I am ready. He then told her 
to repeat "La ilaha illallah..." behind him, which she did in a 
faint whisper, faint in volume but high in certainty and Iman. 
He then told her to say, "There is no god but Allah and Muhammad 
is the Messenger of Allah. Upon this we live, upon this we die, 
upon this we wage Jihad and upon it we hope to be raised up." 
She repeated this and then put her hand on the detonator button 
and pressed it. 

A roaring tremor shook the truck, which was travelling at 25mph, 
and it overturned. The brother of the martyred sister managed to 
jump out of the truck as it left the road, having been injured 
by the explosion. From his other eye, however, he caught sight 
of a bright, concentrated, beam of light shining from the truck 
into the sky whilst the truck was otherwise in flames, in a 
ditch by the side of the road. Whilst part of the truck was 
burning, the brother made his way to the cabin to confirm that 
the two Crusaders did not survive. He saw that the two had 
perished due to the accident (not the fire) and the bodies of 
the Shiite fighters were strewn across the road far from the 
truck. As for the martyred sister, he saw her noble, pure body 
largely in tact despite the explosion, and he was satisfied that 
perhaps that beam of light he saw earlier must have taken care 
of her body. 

As it was very late into the night, no-one came on the road. 
Four hours later, the brother prayed the Fajr Prayer, then he 
prayed for his martyred sister, the Mujahideen and finally, 
himself. By that time, the flames around the cabin had died down 
and the brother returned to it and saw the bodies of the two 
Americans, covered in blood. He took their sidearms: a 9mm 
Beretta pistol from one and a German pistol from the other. He 
then searched their pockets and found their personal 
identification cards, which read: 

NAME: Ronald Stephen Leigh
CITY: Houston, Texas 

NAME: Michael Simon Watkins
CITY: Los Angeles, California 

Abu Khalid urged the Pentagon to refute these claims and stop 
hiding information from the American public and the families of 
the above two Americans regarding US casualties in this war so 
far. He repeated that the Mujahideen possess the proof of their 
identification, which will be distributed if Allah makes it 
easy. 

"Jihad will continue against America at all costs, whether 
Kandahar remains in our hands or not." Taliban Commander 
Dadullah 

KANDAHAR (Daily Islam): The great Taliban commander, Mulla 
Dadullah said that America should know that this is just the 
beginning of the war, a war which might last forever and will 
prove to be the worst nightmare for the Americans, even worse 
than the former war with the Russians. This war will rid the 
victims of the whole world from the cruelty and vice of America. 
In an interview to the 'Daily Islam', he said that the temporary 
retreats, arrests, wounds, injuries and martyrdoms are all a 
part of Jihad and that they and all fellow Mujahideen will never 
let the Muslim Ummah down. He further said that they all are 
UNITED under the strong leadership of Amee-rul- Mumineen, Mulla 
Muhammad Umar and that they will not rest in peace until the 
biggest enemy of Islam (America) is utterly crushed to its end. 

Dead Bodies of 30 Gul Agha's Soldiers Reach Baluchistan 

KANDAHAR (Islam News): The dead bodies of 30 of Gul Agha's 
soldiers have reached Baluchistan. They were killed during the 
first attempt to reach Kandahar, by the enemy. Gul Aga has been 
smuggling drug barons and gangsters from Baluchistan to 
Afghanistan to fight against the Mujahideen. 


From: Radio Europe
To: the E.S.D.
Subject: a night's digest
Date: Tue Dec 4 15:38:20 2001

Message:
dear E.S.D.

Thak you for a night's read, great research again, the coffee 
is great...

Your posts made us decide, last saturday, to pick up a new 
G4 Mac with the monstruous Cinema display so we don't 
have to sit on the tips of our chairs anymore reading...


Once again, awesome research....


Radio Europe...



From: Radio Europe.....21.51 GMT
To: EagleEye
Subject: the bill
Date: Tue Dec 4 15:54:05 2001

Message:
From: EagleEye 
To: Radio Europe 
Subject: Done Deal 
Date: Mon Dec 3 11:50:26 2001 
Message:

Any idea what the past due bill at the UN is?



We were told, this afternoon, that it would be about 20 
percent of 3 times the UN's total yearly budget, minus 
-our source believes-
 the American part in the Yugoslavian operation...    
So go figure, already...  

Hence the strong coffee...

Nite, Radio Europe





 

From: U.K.Citizen
To: Al-Jazeera
Subject: Welcome
Date: Tue Dec 4 15:57:23 2001

Message:
You in my opinion, are a welcome addition to the board. As you 
may have noticed, theE.S.D. provides information from many and 
varied sources. The E.S.D. has posted news information, as I see 
it simply to inform, and provide a focus for further research if 
needed. You providing information in that spirit is indeed, I 
repeat, a welcome addition to this board.

In my humble opinion, information should be made available that 
is as accurate as one hopes it can be, and then the reader is 
allowed to form an opinion upon reading that information to then 
make his or her mind up, without the intrusion of others.

I shall look with interest to see if you indeed post further 
news items, from your perspective. I'm sure you are aware people 
may wish to voice their opinions on the information, and those 
opinions may well vary. However, the SPIRIT in which the 
information is provided is the important thing, something that 
theE.S.D. if I may say, has done 'exceptionally' to date. I hope 
you can follow in that spirit, should you wish to continue.


U.K.Citizen    

From: Radio Europe
To:
Date: Tue Dec 4 16:04:04 2001

Message:
We posted:

And Arafat is a clown, dancing for Islamist extremists, 
Radio Europe...

You posted:
My question is: Then what's Sharon..? An innocent lamp 
being 
chased by the savage, raping,  stone-throwing, cold-blood 
murdering Palestinians.. right? If you think so, then you are 
not much different either...

Gimmi a break.. 

pleeeeeeease..!!




No, Ashraf, Sharon is an old eagle with a big mouth,little 
fear and a lot of war-experience...

So far he has delivered what he has promised... and more...
You know what Al Aqsa mosque is built on top of, don't you?

Sharon got to power in the first place, because the Israelis 
are  -not surprisingly-  very afraid these days...


Arafat hasn't kept a single cease-fire agreement so far.
Simply because he's no longer in charge anymore...
But "less favourable powers" are, you know that, Ashraf.

Even his "police" are infected, how else can 14 year olds run 
the streets with kalashnikoffs, handguns and anti-tank 
grenades, freely?
This "police's" arresting of terrorists is a straight comedy in 
daily editions; they have never, ever arrested a single real 
terrorist.




Good Night from Europe,  Radio Europe.

From: Radio Europe
To: Ashraf
Subject: sorry, new keyboards
Date: Tue Dec 4 16:23:03 2001

Message:
We posted:

And Arafat is a clown, dancing for Islamist extremists, 
Radio Europe...

You posted:
My question is: Then what's Sharon..? An innocent lamp 
being 
chased by the savage, raping,  stone-throwing, cold-blood 
murdering Palestinians.. right? If you think so, then you are 
not much different either...

Gimmi a break.. 

pleeeeeeease..!!




No, Ashraf, Sharon is an old eagle with a big mouth,little 
fear and a lot of war-experience...

So far he has delivered what he has promised... and more...
You know what Al Aqsa mosque is built on top of, don't you?

Sharon got to power in the first place, because the Israelis 
are  -not surprisingly-  very afraid these days...


Arafat hasn't kept a single cease-fire agreement so far.
Simply because he's no longer in charge anymore...
But "less favourable powers" are, you know that, Ashraf.

Even his "police" are infected, how else can 14 year olds run 
the streets with kalashnikoffs, handguns and anti-tank 
grenades, freely?
This "police's" arresting of terrorists is a straight comedy in 
daily editions; they have never, ever arrested a single real 
terrorist.




Good Night from Europe,  Radio Europe.

From: U.K.Citizen
To: Radio Europe
Subject: Goodnight Radio Europe..as I said before..it's always good stuff.
Date: Tue Dec 4 16:27:33 2001

Message:

From: Missin'
To: Eagle-Eye
Subject: Hussein
Date: Tue Dec 4 17:31:45 2001

Message:
I'm only dissappointed that the attack of the Israeli's wasn't 
enough to make him jump into the fray.  He surely would provide 
an easy excuse for us to go there next if he did.

From: Radio Europe
To: Missin'
Subject: Saddam, collapse
Date: Tue Dec 4 19:19:30 2001

Message:
Dear Missin'

We think that the Iraqi people today are even less motivated 
to sttand behind Saddam than they were a few years ago.

Although his propaganda-apparatus is working full speed, 
people are quietly  fed-up with him.

The real problem with Iraq is the fact that its'  "defence" 
systems are so cleverly woven into its'  civil infrastructure.

Any attack would mean immense loss of civil lives.

We personally think that this 
-and the "weapons of mass-destruction"  he has so eagerly 
been hiding from the UN- 
is by far the greatest reason for the reluctance of anyone to 
go in there....

But the West realises, cleverly,  that the cost of the above, 
his "secret service" and propaganda operations are 
immense and by now a destabilising factor to Iraq; 
the people of Iraq have never been poorer, 
yet their leader claims victory.


From Europe....   Radio Europe.


From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: InTheNews
Date: Tue Dec 4 20:06:05 2001

Message:
===========================

12/03/2001: "WHY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION WILL GO 
AFTER IRAQ" 

Within the Bush administration, a debate is raging
over where the war on terrorism goes after
Afghanistan. But contrary to press reports, the
argument isn't about whether to extend the war to
Iraq--that question has largely been settled. Last
week national security adviser Condoleezza Rice
declared Saddam "a threat to us because he is
determined to acquire weapons of mass destruction."
Echoing that appraisal, President Bush argued, "As for
Mr. Saddam Hussein, he needs to let inspectors back in
his country, to show us that he is not developing
weapons of mass destruction." Asked what would happen
if the Iraqi dictator declined to comply, the
president said, "He'll find out." Even Colin Powell,
not known for favoring punitive action against Saddam,
sounds as if he has modified his opinion. Deputy
Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz has recommended that
the United States strike Iraq as soon as "we find the
right way to do it." And, indeed, the United States
does plan to strike. Unfortunately, it still hasn't
found the right way to do it. 

Broadly speaking, the Bush team consists of two camps:
The first wants to disarm Saddam; the second wants to
destroy him. The Pentagon's civilian leadership, led
by Wolfowitz and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld,
has been pressing for a broad and robust military
campaign, launched in conjunction with the Iraqi
opposition, and aimed at ousting the Iraqi dictator.
So have some National Security Council staffers and
Dick Cheney aides. The State Department, meanwhile,
favors limiting any campaign to the destruction or
degradation of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction.
And if this latter faction has been losing the fight
over whether to take military action against Saddam,
it appears to be winning the fight over the scope of
the action. Which means good news for Saddam Hussein
and bad news for the rest of us. 

Those counseling a minimalist approach today happen to
be the same people who counseled minimalism the last
time the United States confronted Saddam, during the
Gulf war. Atop the list is Colin Powell--who
discounted warnings of an Iraqi invasion of Kuwait;
opposed a show of naval force to deter one; argued
against freeing Kuwait once it was occupied; and,
after it was finally liberated, insisted that the
United States not carry the fight to Baghdad and that
it turn a blind eye to the massacre of Iraqis we had
encouraged to revolt. The CIA--which exaggerated
Iraq's military prowess during the run-up to the Gulf
war, and then spent the 1990s botching coup attempts
in Baghdad and maligning the Iraqi opposition--has
also reprised its Gulf war role. Then there's the
State Department's new Middle East counselor, retired
Marine Corps General Anthony Zinni (who spent the
Clinton years crusading against the Iraqi opposition
and warning that they "have very little, if any,
viability to exact a change of regime") and the State
Department's policy planning director, Richard Haass
(who seconded Powell's abandonment of the Iraqi
opposition in 1991 and would prefer it stay
abandoned). To complete the reunion, none other than
Bush p re's national security adviser, Brent
Scowcroft, and the original George Bush himself have
been discouraging Bush fils from extending the war to
Iraq. Had he taken the war to Baghdad in 1991, Bush
pere explained in late October, "[W]e would have seen
something much worse than we have now." 

But other veterans of the first Bush administration
learned a very different lesson from the Gulf war.
Wolfowitz has spent a decade anguishing over his
failure as undersecretary of defense to overcome
Powell's arguments against rescuing the Iraqi
insurgents. At the NSC, Iraq point man Zalmay
Khalilzad, a former Wolfowitz aide, has pushed
aggressively to right yesterday's wrong. So have Rice
and her deputy, Stephen Hadley. Another proponent of
robust action at the NSC is retired General Wayne
Downing, the administration's counterterrorism czar
and until recently a close adviser to the opposition
Iraqi National Congress (INC). Cheney's chief of staff
and national security adviser, I. Lewis Libby (another
former Wolfowitz aide), also favors regime change in
Iraq. And Rumsfeld, who in 1998 signed a letter
stating that "Iraq today is ripe for a broad-based
insurrection," has joined the call as well. 

Until very recently, it seemed unlikely that the Bush
team would be having this debate at all. Having
pledged to deal forcefully with Baghdad, the
administration spent its first months in office doing
the reverse. Though Cheney met with the INC's Ahmed
Chalabi last year, and Bush's Pentagon team kept in
close touch with the Iraqi insurgents, nothing
happened. In fact, like the Clinton team before it,
the Bush team declined to authorize the release of
congressionally appropriated funds for use by the
opposition inside Iraq. Instead, the State Department
audited them. Foggy Bottom then launched a plan to
ease sanctions against Saddam (which it peddled as a
plan to tighten sanctions), and its officials lobbied
for scaling back the U.S.-patrolled no-flight zones
above Iraq. 

Nor did September 11 immediately convince the
administration to reverse course. On the contrary,
bickering between the State and Defense Departments
over Iraqi culpability for the attacks ended up
undermining the case for decisive action. Powell
lectured Wolfowitz that an attack against Iraq would
"wreck the coalition" and complained that Hadley had
inserted a reference to "further action with respect
to other organizations and other states" in a letter
submitted to the United Nations. For its part, the
Pentagon's Defense Policy Board recommended that the
United States target Iraq, and the Pentagon dispatched
former CIA Director R. James Woolsey to London
(without State Department knowledge) to hunt for
evidence of Iraqi complicity. By mid-September, the
debate appeared to have been settled in the State
Department's favor, when the president ordered that
further discussion concerning Iraq await the outcome
of the war in Afghanistan. Cheney subsequently
instructed Wolfowitz to quell the Iraq maneuvering,
and the State Department froze its contacts with the
INC and held up a plan to fund opposition television
broadcasts inside Iraq. 

This came as a particular relief at the CIA, whose
timidity on Iraq rivals even Foggy Bottom's. The CIA's
reluctance to involve itself in anti-Saddam
operations--a reluctance that September 11 did nothing
to dispel--boasts a long and depressing history. With
the departure of Frank Anderson, the Agency's widely
admired chief of Near East operations and a vocal
proponent of the Iraqi opposition, responsibility for
operations against Saddam fell to a parade of
spectacularly incompetent officials. Those officials,
with the encouragement of George Tenet--who, as senior
director for intelligence programs at the NSC, and
later as deputy director of central intelligence,
became enthralled with the idea of ousting Saddam in a
military coup--gradually turned their backs on the
Iraqi opposition. By 1996 Langley had become so
indifferent that when the Iraqi army thrust into the
Kurdish North in August, CIA operatives fled the
country, leaving behind hundreds of opposition
fighters to be slaughtered by Saddam. The same year,
Chalabi and his American contacts warned Tenet
directly that Saddam's agents had penetrated the CIA's
coup operation. Tenet ignored the advice. And not long
after, Baghdad arrested and executed the coup
plotters. Chalabi then took to attacking the CIA
publicly, which culminated in the INC's virtual
banishment from the intelligence community's
deliberations. According to intelligence sources, the
CIA's animus toward the Iraqi opposition extends even
to Iraqi defectors to the INC, whose information the
CIA routinely discounts. Even today, the Agency
continues to pin its hopes on officials within the
Iraqi government and resists closer cooperation with
the opposition. Indeed, administration officials claim
Langley's current Iraq point man, Ben Miller, has
spent much of his time since September 11 disparaging
the INC and musing about how to create an alternative
opposition force. 


ut if the State Department and CIA quickly reverted to
type after September 11, at the White House that day's
aftermath eventually changed some minds. Aides say
that two post-9/11 realities have convinced the
president of the wisdom of turning toward Baghdad. The
first and most important has been our military success
in Afghanistan, and the template--American airpower
combined with on-the-ground proxies--that achieved it.
The second derived from Bush's growing recognition of
how exposed the United States actually is. "This isn't
an abstract issue anymore," explains a Bush adviser.
"It's now clear we're vulnerable, and it's also clear
the best way to protect ourselves is to eliminate
those that threaten us." And Saddam Hussein,
universally assumed to have been developing weapons of
mass destruction during the three years since the UN
inspection regime collapsed, clearly fits the bill.
Vice President Cheney has also slowly come around to
his staff's view that Iraq should be targeted. "What
[Cheney] had a problem with was the timing, not the
issue of confronting [Saddam]," insists an official
close to the vice president. "He follows the
president's lead and had no desire to get out ahead on
this." Now he doesn't have to. 


ut the question of how to strike Saddam remains
undecided. Though the administration continues to
debate several options, ranging from a brief air
campaign along the lines of President Clinton's 1998
fusillade against Baghdad to an Afghanistan-scale
effort, a split-thedifference alternative has emerged.
Some officials dub it the "21-day plan." As its name
suggests, the plan calls for an intensive air
campaign, possibly supplemented by the use of special
forces on the ground, lasting several weeks and aimed
primarily at eliminating weapons of mass destruction.
The idea, originally presented to the Clinton
administration during the run-up to its 1998 strike
against Iraq, has been gaining traction in recent
days. First, the administration would publicly demand
that Iraq permit UN weapons inspectors to return--a
demand the president made last week. Then, assuming
Saddam refuses to cooperate, the United States likely
would launch a bombing campaign against Iraqi
targets--although that phase, say Defense Department
officials, remains months away and likely wouldn't
commence before operations wind down in Afghanistan,
and possibly Somalia and elsewhere. 

Yet these same Pentagon officials contend that efforts
to rid Iraq of Saddam's weapons, rather than Saddam's
rule, miss the point. "What's the endgame?" says one.
"We've been through this routine over and over again,
and he'll just rebuild his [weapons], and in a few
years we'll be back to square one." Saddam's weapons
aren't the problem, these officials maintain. Saddam
is. 

And, in fact, the rationales for a narrowly tailored
bombing campaign are indistinguishable from the
rationales for no bombing campaign at all. The first
is that the opposition Iraqi National Congress can't
do the job. According to INC officials, despite the
renewed attention to Iraq, Washington hasn't stepped
up its contacts with them in recent weeks. The State
Department's Near East desk remains implacably hostile
to the INC and, on November 8, it informed the INC
that "the Department of State is not prepared to fund
INC activities inside Iraq at this time." Two weeks
ago Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage ordered
the Near East desk to release some INC funds. But that
hasn't stopped Armitage from trashing the INC as
incompetents in interagency meetings. And, according
to State Department officials, Zinni, Haass, Powell,
and Frank Ricciardone, the Clinton administration
liaison to the INC, have been strategizing about how
to minimize any future operations against Iraq. 

But the INC isn't nearly so ragtag as its detractors
contend. It already controls a sizeable chunk of Iraqi
territory, boasts thousands of armed fighters, and in
its last major offensive in 1995, bested two
Republican Guard divisions. Compared to the Northern
Alliance, which the State Department also dismissed as
a ragtag band, the Iraqi opposition fields a
formidable army. The Iraqi military, by contrast,
still hasn't fully recovered from its Gulf war defeat,
when it lost roughly half of its forces, and today its
ground units and fixed assets would be far more
susceptible to American airpower than the
comparatively low-tech Taliban. In fact, the
Afghanistan template might well prove more effective
in Iraq than it was in Afghanistan itself. 

The second argument for narrow action is Iraqi
"stability," a decade-long Foggy Bottom preoccupation.
Powell's dictum of ten years ago--"It would not
contribute to the stability we want in the Middle East
to have Iraq fragmented into separate Sunni, Shia, and
Kurd political entities"--remains the State
Department's lodestar. Specifically, officials at
Foggy Bottom argue that only an opposition force
broader than just the Kurds in Iraq's North and the
Shiites in the South can overthrow Saddam without
creating chaos in his wake. If the opposition
alienates Central Iraq's Sunnis by, say, overthrowing
Saddam Hussein, Iraq could be plunged into civil war.
(Sound familiar? If not, substitute the word "Pashtun"
for "Sunni.") But predictions of ethnic turmoil in
Iraq are even more overblown than they are in
Afghanistan. Unlike the Taliban, Saddam has little
support among any ethnic or religious group, Sunnis
included, and the Iraqi opposition is itself a
multiethnic force. In any case, the danger of
internecine strife pales alongside the danger of a
Saddam Hussein armed with biological, chemical, or
even nuclear weapons. 


nother echo of Afghanistan holds that a robust
military effort would fracture our international
coalition. The Saudis, for example, believe that
Saddam's ouster would create more problems for them
than it would solve, not the least of which, according
to senior American officials, is that the Saudi
monarchy might find itself sharing a border with a
democracy. The Europeans, too, including British Prime
Minister Tony Blair, have played down the possibility
of targeting Iraq for fear of infuriating Arab
governments. But the obsession with maintaining our
international coalition confuses the means and ends of
American strategy. After all, a coalition so broad
that it deters the United States from prosecuting the
war on terror is hardly a coalition worth having.
Because different countries bring different
sensitivities and demands to the anti-terror
coalition, the broader the coalition becomes, the
narrower America's freedom to maneuver becomes. And
what are we sacrificing that freedom for? Riyadh
denies us the use of their airbases and denies our
requests to turn over information about Saudi links to
terrorism. As for other allies, including the
Europeans, their support would be nice. But it hardly
amounts to a precondition for a war fought to protect
American lives. 

Which brings us to the imperative of locating
"conclusive" evidence of Iraqi involvement in
September 11, another "prerequisite" for American
action. Czech Prime Minister Milos Zeman announced on
November 9 that, in the months preceding the attacks
on New York and Washington, September 11 ringmaster
Mohammed Atta met twice in Prague with senior Iraqi
intelligence agent Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir Al-Ani.
That's not conclusive evidence, but what could
possibly be the benign explanation for such a meeting?
According to Zeman, the two men explicitly discussed
an attack on Radio Free Europe's headquarters in
Prague. And while that still doesn't point to Iraqi
involvement in September 11, President Bush has
declared a war against terrorism, not just against
those responsible for September 11. Besides, in
addition to planning the destruction of Radio Free
Europe, Saddam has hosted a terrorist training camp
for Islamic radicals (replete with the fuselage of a
Boeing 707 on which to train), tried to assassinate a
former president of the United States, and eagerly
seeks to acquire and develop weapons of mass
destruction. This is, after all, a man who, as former
UN weapons inspector Richard Butler recalls, "seemed
to think killing with germs has a lot to recommend
it." 


hich is the fundamental problem: As long as Saddam
rules Iraq, there will always be tools for him to kill
with. The minimalists think they can eliminate those
germs (and whatever else Saddam intends to use)
without eliminating the man himself. "The idea would
be to get rid of the Iraqi [WMD arsenal], not the
government," explains a State Department official. But
Baghdad has dispersed and concealed its weapons
facilities--a process that has accelerated in recent
weeks, according to press reports--and senior military
officers say it's doubtful that even an air campaign
supplemented by special forces could find and destroy
them all. 

But in the end, the most compelling argument for
ousting Saddam is a moral one. In 1991 Bush pere bet
that "Saddam would flee Iraq or be killed given the
magnitude of his defeat," as he told The New York
Times last week. But Bush bet wrong, and thousands of
Iraqis paid with their lives. Officials who encouraged
Bush's decision--including Powell, Haass, and
Scowcroft--to this day refuse to concede their
mistake. And the elder Bush defends them as well.
"That Colin did not want to use force is a grossly
unfair, insupportable lie," Bush Sr. insisted in his
recent Times interview. (Powell's advice, and Bush's
uncritical reception of it, are a matter of public
record. "We can't make a case for losing lives for
Kuwait," Powell complained in a widely reported remark
prior to the Gulf war.) Which brings us to an unspoken
but powerful argument for maintaining the status quo
in Iraq: Toppling Saddam, particularly with the aid of
the Iraqi opposition, would topple a few legacies in
Washington. And if there's one imperative more
important than keeping Iraq intact, it's keeping
intact the reputations of our statesmen. No matter how
wrong they happen to be. 

WHY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION WILL GO AFTER IRAQ.
by Lawrence F. Kaplan
 =============================

From: EagleEye
To: ALL In Need of Humor
Subject: Real Media Tiliban Parody - enjoy
Date: Tue Dec 4 20:59:35 2001

Message:
http://www.rick.com/cgi-bin/ra.pl?soundbytes/jihad-joe.ra

http://www.rick.com/cgi-bin/ra.pl?soundbytes/tali-van.ra

ZTime to lighten Up .....

From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: HeadLineNews
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:02:56 2001

Message:
Pakistan set to close down militant Islamic schools 
Last Updated: Tue Dec 4 20:45:33 2001 

ISLAMABAD - Pakistan says it will crack down on religious 
schools and the Islamic groups that run them. 

* INDEPTH: Target Terrorism

It's part of the government's anti-terrorist measures. The 
details haven't been announced yet, but the targets will be 
the fundamentalist organisations that have strong ties to the 
Taliban. Many of these groups have called for the overthrow 
of Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf. 

At one of Pakistan's largest mosques it is not unusual to 
hear prayers mixed with politics. When the mullah calls on 
his followers to defend Islam and condemn the country's 
president, the young boys clustered around the 
loudspeakers obediently repeat his chants. 

The boys are also students of the madrassah, the religious 
school attached to the mosque. There's one for girls too. 

The mosque and the madrassahs are run by a 
fundamentalist Islamic group that is as much political as it 
is religious. It's known by its initials JUI. 

Adbdul Rashid Razzi is an influential mullah, and he says 
the madrassah is providing a much needed service. "We 
are imparting education. We are contributing to society. We 
are creating people who are good for the society, they are 
very productive. We are doing a good job." 

But some madrasssahs have been called "little Taliban 
factories" turning out young men willing to fight and die for 
Islam. That was popular in the 1980s, when the graduates 
went off to fight the Russians in neighbouring Afghanistan. 
The Pakistan government actively encouraged the religious 
schools. They grew in power as Pakistan's ties to the 
Taliban grew stronger. 

But after Sept. 11, when Pakistan sided with the United 
States, many fundamentalist clerics called for the violent 
overthrow of Musharraf. 

Now the government is promising a crackdown on the 
hardline Islamic groups and the schools they run. 

Their books will be audited, their foreign funding could be 
cut off and their foreign students deported. 

Mullah Rashid says they'll fight back. "It's a civil war and of 
course in a civil war the country will not prosper. It will further 
disintegrate the country, and that's what America's designs 
are. We understand everything. That's what America is 
planning here." 

The government is betting the religious groups can't muster 
enough manpower to take on Pakistan's army. Spokesman 
Rashid Qureshi says the clerics don't have the backing of 
most Pakistanis. That was proven in recent anti-government 
protests. 

"In these demonstrations, apart from some extremist 
elements of some parties, most of those people who 
participated in these demonstrations were Afghan 
refugees," said Qureshi. 

Daniel Sadar, a pastor at a small Christian church, says 
he's relieved the government is finally taking action against 
extremist Islamic groups. "I think he (Musharraf) 
understands that those parties are not in favour of the 
stability of Pakistan." 

In going after the groups, their schools and their funding, the 
government will have to tread very carefully. Not all of the 
madrassahs are extremist in their teaching of Islam and the 
schools play a key role in Pakistan's education system. 
There are at least 4,500 religious schools, teaching more 
than 500,000 students. 

They fill a huge void in a country that spends most of its 
budget on its military, and almost nothing on education. 

Written by CBC News Online staff 

===========================
OnLineNews
===========================

Canadian Forces coping well in 'busy' war environment 
overseas says commander 
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/011204/w1204107.html

===========================
"RadioEurope---enjoy that G4"
===========================

From: Noah
To: Ashraf
Subject: word on the street
Date: Tue Dec 4 20:29:56 2001

Message:
Hello Ashraf. I was just recently wondering what sort of 
feeling there is in the Arab world about the United States 
getting rid of Saddam Hussein. Do you think most have an 
opinion? I imagine that since Iraq is much closer than 
Afghanistan, people would be more concerned for their 
safety. If there is unease about an attack on Iraq within the 
Arabian penninsula, do you think it is from the possibility of 
attacks by Hussein, or does it look too much like the USA is 
trying to take over the middle east? It would be so much 
better to understand public opinion in the middle east 
because it would make it easier to communicate in general. 
I think after all the deaths Saddam Hussein's dictatorship 
have allowed, he certainly deserves to be convicted of 
crimes against humanity - just like Milosevic. If there was 
some freak like that ruling Canada or Mexico, I think I'd be 
scared to death. I am sorry that you have to live within 1000 
miles of the guy. Anyhow, I'm just curious to know what you 
think the general concensus is about Saddam Hussein.

Thanks!

From: EagleEye
To: Radio Europe
Subject: your new puter .......
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:18:38 2001

Message:
Ive had my eye on those Cinema Displays since Internet World LA 
1999 !!! But alas, they say they cant be run on a pc ..... I 
envision instead of my dual 17" viewsonic flat screens connected 
to the Matrox G450 dualhead video card ..... two 24" Cinema 
Displays, mounted FLATLY on the wall :-)

Baaaangaaaaa!

I have never seen a better monitor picture than those demo'd at 
IW that day in 99 .... from a basic ATI graphics card no less - 
very cool stuff - hope your havin fun.

Thanks for the content!

From: om/cf
To: theE.S.D
Subject: Tactical War
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:21:02 2001

Message:

From: Walter
To:
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:27:37 2001

Message:
WASHINGTON, December 04 AP: Missionaries --
                 often called by their euphemism of aid workers 
-- are
                 being sent by countries like the U.S. and 
Britain to
                 spread Christianity in regions where most 
Muslims,
                 Hindus and Buddhists live, according to a 
Washington
                 Post report. 

                 Dubbed the "10/40 Window," the target area 
stretches
                 between latitudes 10 degrees and 40 degrees 
north
                 from West Africa to East Asia. It includes most 
of the
                 world's 1.2 billion Muslims, 800 million Hindus 
and 350
                 million Buddhists. 

                 The region is home to the largest number of 
"unreached people groups," the term
                 mission groups use for ethnic populations that 
have never heard the New Testament
                 message (from the Bible), says a report in the 
Washington Post. 

                 Since getting visas and entering these countries 
as missionaries is difficult, these "aid
                 workers" from countries like the U.S., Britain, 
Germany and Australia plan to enter
                 Muslim, Buddhist and Hindu countries using visas 
identifying them as "secular workers."

                 In most of the countries situated in this 
region, including Pakistan, there are laws against
                 proselytising -- trying to convert others to 
Christianity. In most Muslim countries, asking
                 is allowed, as is answering the question. But 
passing out Bibles and other literature,
                 worshiping with nationals and showing videos is 
technically prohibited. 

                 "Mission work in the area has grown rapidly 
since the mid-1980s, when mission leaders
                 began retooling their organisations to move 
beyond Latin America and Southern Africa
                 into this non-Christian area with great 
humanitarian needs," said J. Dudley Woodberry,
                 professor of Islamic studies in the School of 
World Mission at Fuller Theological
                 Seminary in Pasadena, California. 

                 Willis, of the Richmond-based Baptist mission 
board, said about 27 percent of the
                 board's 5,000 missionaries are stationed in the 
"10/40 Window" -- up from about one
                 percent 15 years ago. 

Is the U.S.planting seed for more "Holy War"?

From: EagleEye
To: ALL
Subject: Nukes need no longer be out of the question
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:27:46 2001

Message:
"NEW YORK    Three months after the World Trade Center attack, 
victims' families are being forced to face the ghastly 
possibility that many of the dead were "vaporized," as the 
medical examiner put it, and may never be identified."

So I guess vaporizing terrorists is now an even handed 
retaliation ...... they selected jet fuel, we choose 
particles...... the difference is?

From: Walter
To: Eagle Eye
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:36:17 2001

Message:
The difference is that after we use nuclear warfare,the 
countries that are now supposedly on our side will abandon us,the 
 Mideast nations will declare war on us,and 9-11 won't even begin 
to compare with what happens after that.I don't know about 
you,but many of the rest of us don't want to go to war with 
2.5 billion people.

From: Open Mind
To: theE.S.D
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:29:48 2001

Message:
Let us see how Afghanistan shakes out. When 9/11 happened and
soon after when the talk turned to attacking Afghanistan, my 
first thought, and I told co-workers this, was lets use the
Northern Alliance forces, its their country, they know it better
than we ever will. Obviously I wasnt the only one! But I've
read quite a bit about the effectivness in Vietnam of Special
Forces instructing and guiding the locals in areas of operation.
 If the situation is right and the fighters hearts are there I
think it can be the quickest and most effective tactic. Our
Special Forces (SEALS, Green Berets or Black Berets now?, 
Rangers) used to be well trained in using the enemys opposition,
but I dont know the situation today. I guess it all depends
on the situation, which can also bring world opinion down on
the U.S. if the people we backed get out of control. But I
really like the idea of "Hey, this is your country, are you
willing to fight to get it back?" We will help you.
 If that situation is there in Iraq I sure as hell hope we
can explore it before the Politicos fuck it up!

From: North Carolina Gal
To: Walter
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:47:44 2001

Message:
I agree, We don't even need to think about going there! 

From: om/cf
To: Walter
Subject: missionaries
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:05:13 2001

Message:
Missionaries have always sucked, look what they did for the
American Indian. I dont like people in my country trying to
ram it to me. I guess I might be really pissed If I was of 
another religion, in another country. Dont call me I'll call
you is my motto, but having said that, makeing it illegal,
punishable by death may show lack of faith in ones own
religion.

From: Walter
To: North Carolina Gal
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:58:42 2001

Message:
Yeah,but I do understand what Eagle Eye says.With every day that 
goes by,we see the reports and speculations about whats going to 
happen next,I start to think,well the daisy-cutters aint workin 
out so good,they've got some good hiding places in those 
caves,and one good hydro-bomb could take care of the whole 
problem there.
 But this is a very fragile situation.World War III is just 
waiting to happen,and if we're not careful,this could well be the 
beginning.But so far,everything is going just as expected.
 So far,bin Laden's made two big mistakes:The 4th plane didn't 
make it to the nuclear plant(BIG mistake,and the people on that 
plane....I wonder if they knew what their bravery saved us 
from),and he counted on a lot more help from the other Arab 
nations,and you could tell he was VERY upset when he"bitched"them 
out for not helping him.
 Hang on,Eagle Eye.It gets VERY cold in Afganistan in the 
wintertime.Especially in the mountain regions.
 

From: Walter
To: om/cf
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:25:59 2001

Message:
And when trouble starts,they're guaranteed to be taken as 
hostages.It nearly like a "get out of jail free card" for 
terrorists.

From: Minute Man
To: all
Subject: Hamas
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:24:29 2001

Message:
Next on the hit list:  Hamas.

I am past the point of feeling sorry for the Palestinians.  As 
Bill Maher pointed out:  "The Palestinains have a homeland.  
It's called Jordan."

If these people want to continue to target innocent civilians, I 
say "let's get it on".  You have one democracy (Israel) getting 
constantly attacked by a bunch of people who support dictatorial 
governments.

I will never respect, nor stand next to, a government which does 
not allow its people to elect it's leaders.  I believe the right 
to vote is a basic human right, and if a nation denies its 
people that right, they are not my friend!

From: Noah
To: Walter
Subject: Christian doesn't imply American
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:17:09 2001

Message:
I guess you could say that Christians are waging a holy war 
in a sense. However the point is not to kill people but help 
them to live. Most missionaries actually do go as "aid 
workers" because their purpose is to serve others. If there 
are people out there who have not heard the Gospel, I 
believe that there is nothing wrong with sharing it with them. 
I think its rather narrow to say that the US is sponsoring this 
because it is quite obvious to me that this is a secular 
country. Peole may say, "God bless America", but that 
doesn't mean they believe in Jesus's atonement. I would be 
ashamed of the United States if it were purportedly a 
Christian nation. As it stands, the United States is a place 
that allows me to worship freely, so that I may live as a 
Christian and my neighbor may live as a Muslim. I know you 
know the Bible, so I certainly won't preach to you, but I think 
all are entitled to hear how much God loves them.

I agree with you on the use of Nukes. It not only affects 
relations with the rest of the world, but causes fallout that 
takes a trip on the jet stream and rains radioactive material 
all over the world. That is the reason we can't test weapons 
above ground anymore. Thousands of people the the areas 
surrounding the pacific atolls suffered from cancer for years. 
The Japanese had problems for years with radioactive 
fallout. It's just too nasty to think about. Going to war with 2.5 
billion people doesn't sound all that fun either...

From: Walter
To: Minute Man
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:31:24 2001

Message:
Bill Maher also called our military cowards.Two months ago,and 
it nearly got him,and his TV show booted off the air.

From: om/cf
To: EagleEye
Subject: shadows on sidewalks
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:22:58 2001

Message:
Since the terrorists will use anything at their disposal to
"defend" themselves, I sure as hell see no moral reason we
cannot do the same! Live by the bomb, die by the bomb!

From: Noah
To: all
Subject: I'll conceed
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:35:18 2001

Message:
I'll conceed that a great many number of missionaries in the 
past have done horrible things to the people they are 
supposed to be helping. However, the vast majority have 
been well-meaning people who want to share their faith with 
others. The colonial missionaries in the 17th century we 
much more servants of their home country than they were to 
God. 

Walter, you make a good point about the get out of jail free 
card though. Perhaps missionaries should sign a waiver of 
the US's responsibility for them. I would if I were ever to go. If 
I get put in jail and were to get killed for talking about the 
Gospel, I wouldn't want a country to come and rescue me, 
creating some diplomatic scene. I would never ever want to 
be used as a bargaining chip. I would rather die than let 
myself be used to bargain with terrorists. I should bring that 
up at Church to our missionary committee. That problem 
really does need to be fixed. 

Seeing an H bomb dropped would be a most terrible and 
awesome thing. Talk about an indiscriminant 
weapon...everyone within a 30 mile radius wiped out. Brrrrr. 
shivers. 

From: theE.S.D.
To:
Subject: OpinionPoll
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:46:55 2001

Message:
On Sunday Dec 2 13:13:13 2001 we "published" an article 
entitled "Ishmael".
To those who may want to contribute;we would like to do an 
online opinion poll in regards to the following questions.
Feel free to cut and paste.

****************************************

1.In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe,without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)





2.In societies that control freedom of said choices;what is 
the purpose of that control over society?




3.Regarding the war on terror;how do you feel about the 
relation between current affairs of now,and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old.Or does it relate?

From: Walter
To: Noah
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:35:51 2001

Message:
I'm not attacking them as Christians,aid givers,or Americans.
I'm saying,don't throw a bucket of gasoline on a fire to put it 
out.Tensions between Muslims and Christians are running high,and 
now(if ever)is not the time to go into their countries,and kindly 
let them know their God is not the"true"God.And,as we all have 
seen in the news over the years,they are the first to be taken 
hostage,beaten,raped,and murdered.And the fact that the churches 
know this,and send them anyway,frankly makes me sick.I know why 
they go Noah,to save souls and to help people,but........
 We can look up the Holy Crusades in our history books,if we need 
to refresh our memories on battles between Christians and 
Muslims.It didn't go very well for either side.

From: Noah
To: the ESD
Subject: opinion poll
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:53:11 2001

Message:
1. In a free society such as America, Europe, etc., there is 
freedom of choice because the people understand that 
humans have the capability to choose. The governments do 
not want the insane responsibility of doing God's job (that of 
judging people for their actions and inner-most thoughts). 

2. The purpose of controlling the freedom of these choices 
is simply because they have too much pride to let God be 
God. They are afraid that if people believe something 
differently than they do, then they are in danger of loosing 
people's emotional support, which results in a loss of 
power. 

3. An interesting relation between Isaac and Ishmael. One 
cannot make prophecy false. It is sad that the brothers still 
fight. It may certainly have something to do with the situation 
of today. However, I would say that some the decendents 
are no longer clear anymore. Both children seem to be 
stubborn as donkeys, but only one is trying to fight everyone 
else in the world. Interesting.

From: om/cf
To: Noah & all
Subject: dont worry
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:52:35 2001

Message:
Of course the U.S. isnt going to use nuclear weapons in 
Afghanastan. But we do have a neat little bomb that can take
the oxygen out of the air in a place like, oh, say a cave.
 I believe U.S. troops are now positioned near Tora Bora, or
whatever they call it so we couldnt possibly nuke Assmama now.
I read some report today he sent a messinger boy out saying
he wouldnt fight other Afghans (as if he was one). Did anyone
else hear of this report, I was at work taking a quick peek at
the Washington Post or something.
 I did see over the weekend the Frontier Post out of Pakistan
reported dead American Marines being transported back to the
States. According to their report 2 patrols were ambushed, one
on wendsday of last week, the other on friday. I dont know what
to make of their reports, they just say "reliable scources".
 I also didnt want to say anything here, knowing some of you
have loved ones in service right now. That and UK Pukebrain.
But, they also reported, I think Saturday, 25 British soldiers
going home the hard way, again only "reliable scources". Has
their been anything in the British Press UK Citizen? We all
know lives are going to be lost on our side. Im sure, press
or not, those that need to know will know. I just hated that
pathetic bastard using that as vehicle to go off on the 
American Press. I dont remember specifics of the reports but
the Marine number they listed was higher than 25, and again
when they say only "reliable scources" how much faith can
you put into the report?


 25 British

From: theE.S.D.
To: Noah
Subject: ThanksForTheReply
Date: Tue Dec 4 23:36:57 2001

Message:
we hope to respond to these questions also.
however we would like to read a little more before we do.
again,we thank you.

From:
To:
Date: Wed Dec 5 00:45:07 2001

Message:
" Sharon got to power in the first place, because the Israelis 
are  -not surprisingly-  very afraid these days..."

They have all the right to be afraid.. They've only got al the 
ano to the teeth, and additional war planes to match.. What 
about the Palestinians.. Dont you think they are afraid..????

" This "police's" arresting of terrorists is a straight comedy 
in daily editions; they have never, ever arrested a single real 
terrorist."

If only you knew who the real terrorists were, you'd know why 
they havent yet been arrested..

Both Israel and the US make me sick, with their double faced 
policies.. and individuals, with their single tracked minds.. 
How the hell can any President be personally targeted..??

The US and Israeli acts are now the acts of terror.. 

Remember when I defined Terrorisim earlier as being 
anything/anyone who is an Anti-American/Anti-Jew? I guess I 
wasnt wrong now.. was I..? 

You are so blind.. Its sometimes DAMN funny.. yet I aint 
smiling..

From: Ashraf
To: Radio Europe..
Subject: ..
Date: Wed Dec 5 01:19:47 2001

Message:
The above is from me to you..

From: Ashraf
To: Spy
Subject: ...
Date: Wed Dec 5 01:20:34 2001

Message:
I know you dont have much regard for respect, as you clearly 
dont have any, not for yourself, others who differ from you, nor 
others' religious beliefs either.. You are full of it, and that 
much I already know.. 

You are a spoilt brat.. and you've always needed someone else to 
think for you, first it was Eagle-Eye, then it was John and 
finally, it was me who had to spell it out to you like a damn 2 
year old that Walter was on your side..It took a while to go 
through that thick scull of yours, but I'm actually surprised it 
didnt take forever..

"You happen to be one of those people who have threaten peoples 
lifes and well being just because they don't like or except your 
religion."

Again, I'm not surprised with your answer.. If you dont like or 
accept my religion, that's up to you, that is not what causes 
the threats. The threats are caused when you insult our Prophet, 
our God, or even your own Prophet.. and that is definetly not 
being done out of any kind of respect for you.. rest assure.. 
but it iis for Him and for the Prophet, be him Mohammed, Jesus, 
Moses or Abraham.. Again I tell you, you insult them, we'll 
threaten you.. So have some respect.. not for yourself, but for 
them.. I think its about time you went crying to the FBI.. dont 
you think so..?? jerk..

Need I refer to all the instances where you used others names to 
post your own view?? Or remind you of the things you have said 
about Islam and Muslims..? Do you STUPID LITTLE BRAT think that 
I cant respond to your comments in your style..?? 
Disrespectfully?? By swearing at Christianity or at Jesus, May 
peace be upon him?? Then you're right, but not out any illusion 
of any respect for a swine like you, but simply for the mere 
fact that I have self-respect, and if I ever wanna take up a 
matter with you, I'll take it up with you, not your religion, 
not your colour, not your mother, but with YOU!!

So kiss it..


Peace.. but not to the like of you..

From: Ashraf
To: All
Subject: Reposted..
Date: Wed Dec 5 00:45:07 2001

Message:
From: Real Christian 
To: False Christians 
Subject: Will you follow Jesus and speak out against Zionists? 
Date: Sat Nov 24 20:30:43 2001 
Message:
>>From: Me To: Someone 
>>Subject: Your the dumb shit.... Date: Fri Nov 9 16:18:21 2001 
>>Message:Dear Someone,
>>he died because he wanted to. 
>>He died for my sins.

Ah, Wrong!

Jesus died for speaking out against Zionists.

Jesus died for acts of vandalism in the temple,
overturning tables, disturbing the peace, simple assault,
holding public demonstrations without authorization,
and in general, resisting the Zionists.

Jesus spoke out against the Zionist,
who enslave the Hebrew People with lies and cunning,
to gain power and money for themselves.

Jesus was kind to all people,
Except Zionists!

READ YOUR OWN BIBLE PLEASE, 
SEE WHO HE WAS ANGRY AT?

THEY ARE THE ONES WHO KILLED HIM.
LIKE THEY KILLED BACK THEN, THEY KILL AGAIN TODAY.

Jesus loved all Hebrew and non Hebrew people,
and wanted to remove the Zionist control over them.

The Roman government was never a target in his speeches,
teachings, or conversations.  

Jesus even said to pay the Roman Taxes,
Jesus said give true worship to God.

In Truth and in Spirit, not just on some 'holy hill' in Israel.

Only the false teachers, 
the Zionists, hated the Romans.

Jesus died speaking out against Zionists.

Jesus was killed then,
just like Palestinians are killed today:
fighting Zionists.

Jesus loves Palestinians, Jews and Everybody,
but he hated those people who use religion or
political power to enslave the poor people of the world.

I don't understand why they fight over stupid sand.
Their land is ugly, their people are dirty,
the place is dry and dusty, yuck!!


Remember this Christmas:
Pray for the people of Palestine.
They are slaughtered daily by Zionist Armies.
Just like Jesus was murdered by Israeli forces.

And it is the Hebrew People who suffer the most
at the hands of the Zionist Government.


-  -  -  -  -  N E W S -  -  -  -  -
Hamas leader s murder sparks new violence
By Nazir Majally, Arab News Staff

JENIN, West Bank, 25 November   The murder of a senior leader of 
the Hamas group by Israel on Friday drew sharp condemnation from 
the Arab League and France yesterday as thousands of Palestinian 
mourners in the West Bank and Gaza vowed to support revenge 
attacks in Israel.

In apparent retaliation, an Israeli was killed and two others 
were wounded in a Palestinian mortar attack on their outpost in 
central Gaza. There was no immediate comment from the Israeli 
Army on the report of the incident near the Jewish settlement of 
Kfar Darom in central Gaza.

And Israeli tanks made an incursion into the northern Gaza Strip 
town of Beit Lahia and shelled a school. The tanks rolled 800 
meters into the Palestinian town and fired at least three shells 
at a school, they said, adding that there had so far been no 
reports of injuries.

Some 50,000 Palestinians marched from the West Bank city of 
Jenin to nearby Nablus in the funeral procession of Hamas 
military leader Mahmoud Abu Hanoud. His death in an Israeli 
helicopter missile strike on his car near Nablus, is certain to 
complicate a new US mission to end 14 months of violence. His 
deputy, Ayman Hashaikah, and his brother, Ma moun Hashaikah, 
died with him.

Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres told Israel Radio that 
Hanoud was a "professional terrorist" planning future attacks 
and that killing him was an act of self-defense.

Palestinian Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo accused 
Israel of trying to scupper the US peace effort. Former US 
Marine Corps Gen. Anthony Zinni and Assistant Secretary of State 
William Burns are due to arrive in the region tomorrow.

France and the Arab League condemned the killing and its timing 
on the eve of the US officials  visit. A French Foreign Ministry 
spokesman criticized the "particularly inappropriate and 
irresponsible act (of killing Hanoud)...at a time when parties 
have been asked to resume dialogue to bring about a cease-fire".

In Cairo, Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa said Israel s 
killings of Palestinians and other acts of violence 
constituted "a serious challenge" to the US peace initiative. 
The attack on Hanoud brought to at least seven the number of 
Palestinians to die violently on Friday, one day after five 
Palestinian boys were killed in an explosion in the Gaza Strip 
that Israel admitted resulted from a booby-trap. At least 720 
Palestinians have been killed in an uprising against Israeli 
occupation since September 2000.

From: Missin'
To: Ashraf
Subject: I'm Sorry
Date: Wed Dec 5 01:34:03 2001

Message:
Ashraf,
I understand how upset you are.  Please know that the U.S. WOULD 
and COULD stop the Israeli's if they were doing anything other 
than responding to the terrorist attacks of the Hamas group last 
weekend.  Our hands are pretty much tied when the Palestinian 
terrorist groups keep targeting civilians.  They MUST find a way 
to get what they want through diplomatic channels rather than 
trying to force their views down people's throats with violence.

I have some sympathy for the Palestinian cause...but, KNOWING 
what is happening in Afghanistan, how could Hamas be so stupid 
as to think that there would be no retaliation?  I still suspect 
that Hamas and the other groups like them are puppets being 
controlled by some other hidden force...Hussein is my best guess.

I think it was Noah that asked you earlier to help us understand 
public sentiment there about Hussein...we'd really like to 
know.  We are not your enemy.  You may consider us 
blinded...but, again to us it feels as though we have no choice 
because of the methods used by some Palestinian groups.

From: Missin'
To: Ashraf
Subject: Jesus
Date: Wed Dec 5 02:11:28 2001

Message:
Ashraf,

Do you believe that Jesus was the son of God?  I thought that 
most Jews and Muslims believed that he was only a prophet.

I take issue with your statements about Jesus dying fighting the 
Zionists.  Jesus was sent by God to teach...and to die for us to 
wash away our sins with his blood allowing each of us that 
believe in him eternal salvation.  Jesus knew that he was to die 
for us.  His wrath in the temple had nothing to do with it.

You've also stated your belief that a person can "earn" his way 
into heaven by his good works.  This is NOT a Christian belief.  
The Bible says that no-one is righteous...we are ALL guilty of 
sin.  The gift of eternal salvation is just that...a GIFT.  
Grace is the gift of Jesus Christ who died for our sins.  That's 
all.  All that a person must do to obtain this Grace is to 
accept the Lord Jesus Christ as his Saviour...he saved us.

Please don't try to interpret the Bible to serve your own agenda.

From: EagleEye
To: ALL
Subject: Now the Palastinians resort to the retarded
Date: Wed Dec 5 02:15:19 2001

Message:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58911-
2001Dec5.html

"I'll show them bastard Isreali's ....... I'll splatter my guts 
all over their walls in the wee hrs of the morn on a deserted 
street, and those fuckers will have to clean it off!!" said the 
tard farm jihadi.

Duooooh!

From: EagleEye
To: Walter
Subject: Ok No Nukes .......
Date: Wed Dec 5 02:37:51 2001

Message:
But ya know ..... wonder if this would all be happening if these 
mother fuckers were afraid of us using NUKES on their asses as 
we are of them using them on us ...... if they could get them?


Oh ... and how interesting is it that Osama bin Lucifer has sent 
word ... "Hey dont send in the Afghans/Muslims .. I dont wanna 
fight them,   hint hint hint ... just them "Amellican" 
bastards ..... we have special present for them.

Me thinks he's got a small but powerful enough suitcase like 
nuke and wants to score his crew martyrdom headlines, and off as 
many Amellican troops as he can get "gathered round the 
mountain".

From: jerusalem lover
To: all above
Subject: iraq
Date: Wed Dec 5 02:32:03 2001

Message:
noah had asked ashraf a while back what he thought about 
americas plans to attack iraq.
what i have to say about it is that america has been wanting to 
get rid of sadam hussain..i mean destroy him completely.after 
that who will have control over the country and its oil??
america ofcourse. but they just cant attack it for no 
reason..they have been trying to look for the perfect excuse 
and now they think they have finally found it. they ave been 
wanting the UN to do a weapon inspection in iraq for the past 
months and sadam has been refusing...so that the states is 
going to do now is exagerate the situation for iraq and start 
saying that iraq had some seriour biological and chemical 
weapons and they are threatening us..we must make a move or we 
will not be safe at all..at that time they will move into iraq 
and attak them..but that will be the biggest mistake..i dont 
know why, but i have a feeling that it all stands up to iraq 
now.the army that iraq has prepared is humungus and is said to 
swipe out all of isreal..if that is true than they will fight 
back very hard against america and move into isreal..jordan is 
a coward so it will stay neutral and not allow iraq to enter it 
to get thru to isreal so whats going to happen is that theyre 
going to go thru syria..and the syrian army WILL join the 
iraqi's and thats when the arab nation will start to finally 
put their handds together to fight for their brothers..
i'm telling you now..this is going to be a big ass war and this 
is just the very begining,no one has seen anything yet. this 
war will go on forever and many lives will b lost.i mean MANY. 
whoever mentioned it above is right..WW3 is just about to begin 
so get ready..and this time i think it will be the worst..the 
whole arab world against the united stated and brittain...so 
who will survive??
dont forget that the states and the uk are full of arabs..there 
are thousands of them..do you accually think they will join 
america against their country?? i dont think so..this'll be a 
tough oe for america.

From: Missin'
To: E.S.D.
Subject: Quiz
Date: Wed Dec 5 02:26:48 2001

Message:
Hi E.S.D.,
I don't know how much help I'll be to you since it may take days 
for me to form an intelligent response to your questions...but, 
I'll try.

1.In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe,without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)

I don't know the answer to this.  I know that the founding 
fathers of our country were Christian.  Maybe some were Catholic 
and some were Protestant, and that's why they decided that we 
should have freedom of choice.  Forgive the lack of knowledge of 
history.  The only thing I can say is that I'm glad to live in a 
country where I am free to choose.

2.In societies that control freedom of said choices; what is 
the purpose of that control over society?

In a book I read once about the Middle Ages in Europe, it said 
that during that period the church (Catholic) was the only 
intermediary between God and his people.  It was the job of the 
church to interpret and teach God's word.  When the church began 
to be filled with corrupt people who chose the position for the 
power that it brought them, it became evident that they used the 
word of God (as they interpreted it) to damn those who they 
didn't like, and to forgive those who they did.  It was at this 
point that the Catholic faith began to splinter into other sects.

My point is that anytime religion is used to provide power...it 
becomes corrupt.  Only a corrupt religion, in my opinion, 
demands 100% compliance and belief in ONLY the beliefs taught by 
those in power.

3.Regarding the war on terror;how do you feel about the 
relation between current affairs of now,and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old. Or does it relate?  

I'm amazed at how well it DOES relate.  It explains much to me.  
I tried, before the 9/11 attacks, to understand what was 
happening in the Middle East.  I have friends that support the 
Palestinian views, I have friends that support the Zionist 
views, and I have friends who have much more knowledge than I of 
the economics of the region.  I drew heavily from those 
resources, and still only felt that I had partial knowledge.  So 
much of the conflict is the "he did/they did" variety.  I came 
away with the opinion that neither side is all right or all 
wrong.  So, I had to draw a line that made sense to me.  The 
line I drew is that killing innocent civilians is wrong.  
Therefore, even though I may actually have felt more sympathy 
with the Palestinians (before I saw them dancing in the streets 
on 9/11)...I felt that I would have to support Israel more.  
This being entirely because of the methods each utilized to make 
their points.  Now that you've shown me where the conflict 
originated in your Sunday Edition post...I realize that there is 
no right side.  This was set in motion by God himself...and only 
God will ever be able to resolve it.  And, in my belief...it 
will serve God's purpose.  I don't know how and I don't know 
why.  "God's ways are not my ways" to paraphrase.  I wish that 
it weren't so, but I don't think the conflict will ever end 
until it ends as prophesied in the Bible.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------



From: Missin'
To: jerusalem lover
Subject: I wish you were wrong
Date: Wed Dec 5 02:54:16 2001

Message:
I'm very afraid that your assessment is correct.  Thanks for 
posting.

From: Father Guido
To: Noah
Subject: Christian doesn't imply American
Date: Wed Dec 5 03:12:05 2001

Message:
Regarding an earlier message as noted....
From: Noah 
To: Walter 
Subject: Christian doesn't imply American 
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:17:09 2001 

I have finally read something from you that I totally agree with.
Thanks for your insight to a Christian's perspective. How do you 
feel about those who do reach out in the mission fields and get 
imprisoned for attempting to bring the Word of God to others?  
I'm not sure who had the response of being left to die instead 
of being used like a pawn in a terriorist trade or something to 
that effect...but I also thought that was a most insightful 
answer to a selfless act of courage, bravery and self sacrafice. 
Kind of like what Christ Himself did....Don't you think???
All for now....God Bless you and yours...<><...<><...<><...F.G.+

From: Father Guido
To: Missin'
Subject: posting to Ashraf as noted
Date: Wed Dec 5 03:50:10 2001

Message:
From: Missin' 
To: Ashraf 
Subject: Jesus 
Date: Wed Dec 5 02:11:28 2001 

I am with you Brother with one exception on your following 
quote..."All that a person must do to obtain this Grace is to 
accept the Lord Jesus Christ as his Saviour...he saved us."
Yes, we must accept Jesus as our Saviour to obtain God's Grace 
because "no man can reach the Father but by believing in Me" but 
it is also stated that "we must also go fourth and spread the 
word to others, so they may also come to know Him." Hence the 
missionaries as was also brought up in previous messages between 
several other postings tonight.
Just being good does not give us the right to be with the 
Father. We have to obey the laws given and teach those who would 
otherwise never know Him...I believe that does also apply to 
Osama and all the other terrorist's out there...Easy to say, 
very had to do...We all need help with that one...Keep the Faith 
going strong and share the Word...<><...<><...<><...F.G.+

From: EagleEye
To: jerusalem lover
Subject: Iraq's Big Ass Army ......
Date: Wed Dec 5 04:17:58 2001

Message:
Big Ass Nancy Boys ......  It aint no thang .... Shit all we had 
to do last time to get those idiots to surrender was scare the 
shit out of them with "news crews".  The Big Ass Army was 
surrendering right and left ... to you guessed it .... news 
crews.  Though Im not so sure - our Italian "civilians" 
frequenting New York and Las Vegas couldnt adequately handle the 
job ......

And let us not forget ......... our new oil friend... Russia.  
Not real sure they are as Arab friendly as they might once have 
been.  So that'd likely be USA, Britain and Russia ..... and if 
it got really bad, Germany, Italy, Australia.  AND .... if it 
got really, really bad ...... the push of a few buttons makes 
baqarat out of all that fucking sand.  Interesting a Jew 
unleashed the science that will likely wipe out the Arabs .. in 
the long run.  Quite an Irony I say.

But you are correct about one thing .... a LOT of lost 
lives .... Iraqi/Arabs.  Bombs Away ....... They can strap them 
to themselves all they want ....... Its sooooo much more 
effective to drop them from 30,000 feet via laser.

From: Ashraf
To: Noah & Miss'n...
Subject: ...
Date: Wed Dec 5 06:29:44 2001

Message:
The general impression about Saddam in the Arab world is as 
follows. He once resembled as the pride of the Arabs, and their 
military strength. He was weakened by the Iran/Iraq war, yet he 
remained popular, coz till then, he hadnt done anything awfully 
clear to show his true colours, so the Arabs were not to blame 
for admiring his strength, especially when you keep in mind the 
lame weakness of the Arabs in uniting.. Hopeless case.. Any 
way.. Then came the American led Booby trap: Kuwait.. After the 
killing, murdering and looting performed by his soldiers, his 
true colours shone as bright as the sun.. 

The Arabs then stated hating him for what he's done, regardless 
of their previous admiration.. All the Arab nations around him, 
where also afraid of the kind of retaliation a mad man like 
Saddam could initiate.. They asked for the protection of the 
US.. all at a price, paid by the Arabs from their oil fields..

The US imposed all sorts of sanctions on Iraq.. The Arabs 
welcomed them, as they saw much reason and justification behind  
these sanctions.. 

But when Saddam's influnce remained unchanged over Iraq, and 
500,000 children died in Iraq, but this price was " worth it ", 
as Albright stated in cold-face, the Arabs starting wondering 
whether Iraq should continue to be punished for its sin for over 
10 years, especially when such punishments are only effecting 
the innocents.. They decided it wasnt sensible anymore to go on 
with this children killing policy..

I assure you, that I hate Saddam, even more than my hate for 
OBL, for he and definetly your grand " America " have both 
caused countless deaths, paid for by the blood of the helpless..

I have yet to come across one Arab who likes Saddam, especially 
an Iraqi, but on the other hand, I also have yet to meet one 
Arab, Muslim or sensible person, who would approve any kind of 
US action against Iraq, which will only harm the people of Iraq. 
Not 1 pArab nor Muslim will support the US in its next move.. 
and I hope that you would have figured out the reason of why not 
by now.. from the Arab's and my own prospective..

But regardeless of how you wish to interpret my words, our 
objection to the US actions to be taken against Iraq, are 
without a doubt, not a result for any sympathy for that Evil-
Eyed Madman.. Never..!!

The US has 1 solution to this problem, and one solution only, 
other than the option of forgetting about the whole matter, 
which highly unlikely, and that is to send a couple of your 
Commandos to arrest him, quietly.. 

Why I didnt say kill him, is because then the US would have been 
just as slimmy as Israel in its move against Arafat.. but I 
believe the Bush is an inch better than Shoron... just an inch.. 
but he's still a fool to think that he can pull this off..

I hope that answers your questions..

Peace.. especially to the likes of you.. ;)

From: om/cf
To: all
Subject: Premature Ejaculation
Date: Wed Dec 5 07:21:34 2001

Message:
Maybe Isreal should leave the Palisinians alone. Seems like
half the time the suicide bombers make it a true suicide. Well
at least the last fellow got the bomb out of the house, but
kept playin with the button. LOL.

From: Ashraf
To: Miss'n..
Subject: ...
Date: Wed Dec 5 07:27:53 2001

Message:
I didnt type a single letter of the whole article.. It is an 
Article that I'd read over at another board.. I liked it, so I 
reposted it..

No.. I dont believe that Jesus was the son of God.. but the 
Quran has told us enough about him to make us love him, more 
than you'd think possible.. If interested, I could post some 
translated verses for you from the Quran, about Jesus, may peace 
be upon him.. and what Muslims believe he is and isnt, exactly, 
and not as per anyone man's interpretations.. Deal..?

Your denial of my beliefs offends me no more than my denial to 
your beliefs offends you.. ie no offense taken when people donot 
agree on any point.. it doesnt make them enemies.. but dont let 
this statement make you think that I dont know that you already 
knew that.. ;)

PS: About the above Saddam post.. you can see how people 
can "not" be against you, but also not be with you, to the 
disappointment of Bushy Bushy Boy..: 

R U with US or AGAINST US?? Pass..

Peace..

From: Ashraf
To: om/cf
Subject: ...
Date: Wed Dec 5 07:27:53 2001

Message:
This is funny.. you're gonna like this.. Above me should be the 
joke you posted about the Palestinian with the bomb.. a joke 
that was funny, but I aint smiling.. I wanted to respond 
adequately (..not too much, nor too little..) thereto.. So I 
decided to see what kind of a person you are, so as not to make 
my respond too hard.. I then came across your post, addressed to 
me, one that I hadnt read before.. I liked it.. and thank you 
for it.. and to that I'd say: My reponse to yo, would be 
congruent to your post to me, ie go back to the post, and 
instead of Palestinians put Jews.. etc.. That's exactly how I 
feel.. except for the part which says: I give you credit for.. I 
would say, I would  give you credit for being somewhat chilled.. 
You havent made racist offenses to Islam.. so you're fine, and 
you do wish to communicate your differences to me as I do to 
you.. and that's cool.. ;)

Ps: Actually, I was so fond of the post, I'll repost it:

Ashraf, I understand your position with reguards to the rock
throwers. It still strikes me as an act of stupidity though.
We can be civil to each other although we'll never see eye to
eye on the Isreali/Palistinian issue as to which is the 
terrorist. I see the suicide bombers attack civilian buses and
shopping malls and food establishments, while I see Isreal
respond on what I view as a proper military target, Arafats
headquarters. That said, I still believe Arafat (a terrorist 
icon) has little to no control over the younger terrorists in
their groups but he proclaims himself as the leader of the
Palistinian cause so that makes him a proper target for a 
military response to the evil innocent Isreali citizens have
endured the past few days and years. I also believe the current
events in Isreal are connected to the overall plan of the
worldwide terrorist network of Assmama and others to use their
version of Islam to their advantage for their evil purpose.
 I give you credit for stepping up as, not enough have done, to
say, this is not Islam as I've learned it. Bush uses the word 
evil so much, in part to rally Americans (yes propoganda,
but there is no country, religion or any institution in the
world that doesnt use it), the other reason is its the truth.

Peace..

From: Ashraf
To: Allati2d.. John..
Subject: ...
Date: Wed Dec 5 08:00:10 2001

Message:
Where are you guyz..? u r being missed.. 

Geese.. oops! 

Peace..

From: Missin'
To: Ashraf
Subject: Peace
Date: Wed Dec 5 09:21:31 2001

Message:
Ashraf,

I truly believe that we have tried to take care of 
Hussein...anyway we could (slimy or not) and have failed.  I 
keep being reminded of Fidel Castro everytime I think of that 
madman in power in Iraq.  I worry that any attack on him by us 
now will lead to massive loss of innocent lives due to his 
cowardly way of hiding behind children.  He IS smart enough to 
realize that we do care about the innocents...and that is his 
weapon against us.  During the Gulf War, after we had weakened 
his army...my idea was that we hire 10 or 20 mercenaries at $1 
million each to go after him.  The one that got him would get a 
$20 million bonus.  I worry about whether or not Bush is 
rational about Iraq...I fear that his family pride is involved.  
After all, it WAS his Dad who let Hussein get away the first 
time...when we had the support of the world to destroy him.

I am glad that we (you and I) can peacefully agree to disagree 
on certain differences in our faiths.  There are things about 
yours that I like.  For instance, I believe that prayer 5 times 
a day is a wonderful way to keep the connection to God strong.  
I wish I prayed more often.  I'm sure it's a habit I could get 
into, but most times I just send a thought to God whenever I see 
something beautiful, or feel love, or sadness.  I came to God 
from a visit from Christ Jesus in a dream.  I could never turn 
my back on Jesus now...he chose me, and he saved me, and he 
changed me.  But, I can have respect for your beliefs as well.  
And, yes, I'd love to see the verses you mentioned.  Send them 
to Allatit2d, and ask her to forward them to me, will you?

Praying you'll have a peaceful day today.

From: Ashraf
To: Miss'n
Subject: ...
Date: Wed Dec 5 09:52:10 2001

Message:
Sure will send them across to her.. In fact, I'd just emailed 
her a minute ago..

Have a peaceful life too..

Ps: I saw Jesus, may peace and prayers be upon him, and Virgin 
Mariam in a vision too.. I was 16 at the time.. He was around 2 
or 3.. He is beautiful, no doubt, no doubt, no doubt.. and so is 
she.. I thank Allah for showing them to me, before he called 
upon my soul.. utter beauty..

From: Missin'
To: Father Guido
Subject: Witness
Date: Wed Dec 5 09:47:30 2001

Message:
Dear Father G,
Thank you for your comments.  One thing I'd like to respond to 
is the requirement to witness...in your words meaning Mission 
work. (If I understood you correctly)

I think that witnessing can be done any number of ways.  I think 
that some methods are offensive even to other Christians.  By 
that I mean the people who come knocking on your door acting as 
if they alone know about God and the rest of us are ignorant.  
Arrogance is NOT a trait that I ever associated with Christ.

I think that some people witness through their work.  A good 
example would be music industry artists such as Faith Hill (and 
many many others) who share their beliefs in songs meant to 
touch hearts with the message of God.  Faith Hill's "There Will 
Come A Day" is one of the most inspiring that I've heard in 
recent years.

I think that some people witness through their hobbies.  People 
who coach and behave as role models for youth by reflecting the 
love of God.  I bass fish tournaments.  We have a Christian 
Angler's group that meets for a moment of prayer before 
tournaments.  This is very low key, but if only one person comes 
to belief through us, then we have been successful.  And, some 
people like Noah, for instance use the internet to connect with 
others who might not believe.

It is my belief that if we live as Christians and try to project 
the love of God that we feel so blessed by, that makes us 
attractive to people who also want to know that love.  I'm not 
always as good as I'd like to be at that...I've made some pretty 
harsh statements here on this board.  But, I believe that most 
people who know me know what I believe.  And, the gentle 
approach that I try to maintain may allow them to question me 
without feeling as though I'd pounce on them and demand that 
they join me.

I guess what I'm saying is that witnessing is an everyday part 
of life for most Christians.  It doesn't, in my honest opinion, 
require me to go to Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Egypt to win 
converts.  I try to live my everday life in such a way that 
others may see me as someone who has been blessed, and who loves 
because I am loved...and that the love I receive belongs to them 
too, no matter what.  And this I do for God...not because I feel 
that he demands it in return for salvation...but because he 
loves me, and this is my gift in return.

Thank You again for your comments, Father.

From: Ashraf
To: Miss'n, Noah, Allatti2d, om/cf, John, Walter, Eagle-Eye, U.K.Citizen, Spy, UK Voices, North Cal Gal and other friends..
Subject: ..
Date: Wed Dec 5 09:59:41 2001

Message:
It is but for the likes of you, and for your and my better 
understanding of our differences and commons, that I come here..

Peace to all of you..

From: Missin'
To: Ashraf
Subject: Same Here
Date: Wed Dec 5 10:28:50 2001

Message:
Ashraf,

I thank you for your gentle persistence here.  I find it 
comforting to know that I can ask you questions about conditions 
there, and receive intelligent answers.  And, just as important 
to me, I'm glad that someone is hearing that we DO care.  The 
majority of this country cares about innocent lives that are 
lost everyday.  We don't have ALL the solutions, but we do our 
best.  And, gaining understanding from people such as yourself 
allows us to be watchful of our elected officials to see that 
they behave in ways that reflect that concern.  Bush, like every 
other elected official here, watches the Public Opinion polls to 
be sure that he isn't making any big mistakes.  His approval 
rating is all he has to go on to know whether or not he is 
abiding by the wishes of the common American.

Is it peaceful where you live?  I hope so for your sake, and for 
that of your family.

From:
To:
Subject:
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